Skc-mcm/1A/11. 00 The House met at eleven of the clock, mr. Chairman in the Chair mr. Chairman

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SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (contd.): My Government is proud that 140 million people have been lifted out of poverty. I am sure, the work will continue. The work will continue after me. The work will be continued by my successor, the work will be continued by the successor Government, whoever the successor is. The work must continue. Our work will not end until everyone is lifted above the poverty line.

Sir, the last point I want to make is on the rupee. I have seen so much writing about the rupee in the last several days. I think, they have to go back to the drawing board to understand what the rupee is and how the rupee behaves. Yes, people have said that one rupee is equal to one dollar. Of course, it was in 1947 that one rupee was indeed equal to one dollar. Ten grams of gold costed Rs.88.62 in 1947. Today, ten grams of gold is about Rs.29,000. The rupee has depreciated. Do you not like the rupee? Don't take the rupee. I will give you 88 dollars. Please go and buy ten grams of gold today. We will give you 88 dollars if you don't like it. Please go and buy ten grams of gold today. If the rupee has depreciated against the dollar, the dollar has depreciated against gold. Why? It is because in 1947 and earlier, nobody bought gold, there was no demand for gold. The per capita income was low. Wealth was concentrated in a few hands. There was nobody buying gold. There was a certain amount of gold supply and the demand was a certain demand and gold was available at that price. But, today, the supply of gold may have increased a little more or may have decreased, I don't know. The demand has increased; more and more people worldwide, not only in India, but all over the world, are buying gold. In China too they are buying as much gold. Despite fifty years of communism, they are not able to desist. They are the people who were away from the attachment to gold. So, China is buying gold, India is buying gold and gold is today Rs.30,000 per ten grams. I don't think we should look at what was the dollar and what was the rupee. I have got the figures on how the rupee behaved for the last ten years. ...(Interruptions)...

Gold standard was removed before 1947. We are talking about 1947 and thereafter. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI PIYUSH GOYAL: The analogy doesn't help.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Because you say that the rupee was one dollar in 1947. I am trying to answer that argument. If one rupee was one dollar and the dollar was such a strong currency, do your arithmetic; at 88 dollars you should be able to buy ten grams of gold today. ...(Interruptions)...

The point is, how was the rupee behaved in the last few years. I think, we need to look at that. I will tell you. Sir, the rupee was, in April, 2004, Rs.43.77 to the dollar. In April, 2010, it was Rs.44.77 per dollar. The rupee was remarkably stable during 2004-2010. Between August, 2011 and August, 2012, the rupee depreciated from Rs.44 to about Rs.55. That is when the Euro Zone crisis hit the world. From 1st August, 2012 to 22nd May 2013, the rupee was remarkably stable. It was about Rs.54-55 to the dollar. For full ten and a half months, the rupee was remarkably stable. Then came the Fed Chairman's famous statement, "All currencies in the world depreciated because of a hint that quantitative easing will be withdrawn." Sir, it is not as though the Indian rupee alone is affected. I was patting myself on the back thinking that in another six weeks I could claim that the rupee has been remarkably stable for one year. But, then came the statement. Every currency has depreciated. In fact, the rupee's depreciation is smaller than the depreciation of some other currencies and worse than the depreciation of some currencies.

The point is, given our inflation, given our fiscal deficit, given our current account deficit, there will be some pressure on the rupee and the rupee will indeed depreciate a little. All that we are saying is, we can't allow the rupee to go into a free fall.

(Contd. By TDB/4A)


SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (CONTD.): We are not arguing for and against a strong rupee. We are arguing for a stable rupee. We cannot allow the currency market to be destabilized or the currency market to be volatile. So, the measures that we are taking are to reduce the volatility in the currency market, to quell speculation in the currency market so that the rupee is stable. But the rupee must indeed find a level given the demand and supply and given the objective financial conditions. But if our fiscal consolidation takes place at a rapid pace, if we are able to contain the fiscal deficit, and if we are able to carry conviction to the world that we will contain the current account deficit and finance it safely and if the flows return to India, you will find the rupee is strengthened. It is not as though the rupee has not strengthened in the past. For example, in April, 2009, the rupee had hit fifty. But by April, 2010, it had strengthened to 44. Therefore, my respectful request is please don’t get carried away by what you read and what you hear about the rupee. The rupee will find its level, but we try to do what has to be done to keep the economy stable and growing; the rupee will find its correct level. Nobody can predict what the correct level is. It depends upon the objective economic conditions and the demand and supply for foreign currency. Suppose, our exports improve dramatically; suppose we are able to reduce our dependence on oil which is imported or coal which is imported, it will change. Hence, it will change overnight. Therefore, my respectful submission is, while the debate on the rupee is a welcome debate, it should not become a debate about the pride or prestige of our country. Yes, we all want a stable currency, we also want a currency that has a high purchasing power, but we have to address the fundamental issues. The fundamental issues are fiscal deficit and the current account deficit. These are being addressed, and as we address these issues, I assure this House, we will find that the country’s economy becomes stable, more strong and we become more prosperous.

Finally, Sir, let me conclude by saying that there is a raging debate between Prof. Jagdish Bhagwati and Dr. Amartya Sen. I think this debate makes a good theatre, but I think this debate must be seen in the context. I hold both of them in high regard. I know one of them rather closely; rather I am acquainted with the other distinguished gentleman. But, I think, we must understand what they are talking about. I think, Dr. Bhagwati and Dr. Panagaria are emphasizing how growth is absolutely necessary for a developing country. Let us not underestimate their arguments. Growth is absolutely necessary. It is a necessary condition. What Dr. Sen and Dr. Dreze are saying is, while growth is necessary, growth must be inclusive, growth must be sustainable, growth must embrace larger and larger sections of the people. Nobody can be left behind. The poor cannot be left behind; the Scheduled Castes cannot be left behind, the Scheduled Tribes cannot be left behind; the minorities cannot be left behind, the women cannot be left behind, the disabled cannot be left behind, the marginalized people living in the remote parts of India cannot be left behind. Try to embrace as many people as possible in your growth process. I think both of them are concerned about both, prosperity and the abolition of poverty. I don’t think their goals are different. They just lay emphasis on one aspect, a little more than emphasis on other aspect. I was tempted to describe one as having a passion for growth, and describe the other as having the compassion for the poor. That doesn’t mean that those who are passionate about growth have no compassion for the poor.

(Contd. by 4b-usy)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (CONTD.): But, at the same time, it does not mean that those who have compassion for the poor are not passionate about growth. I believe that this country will be served well if all of us agree that we must combine our passion for growth with the compassion for the poor. That is the policy of our Government and I ask you to support it.



MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, we shall take up the Special Mentions. Shri Khekiho Zhimomi.

SHRI KHEKIHO ZHIMOMI (NAGALAND): Hon. Deputy Chairman, Sir, through you, I would like to draw the attention of the Minister of Petroleum & Natural Gas to his letter, dated 13th June 2013, addressed to the Chief Minister of Nagaland requesting to withdraw the Notification issued by the Government of Nagaland in December, 2012, inviting expression of interest for the oil & natural Gas exploration production etc. in the State of Nagaland and also to rescind the Nagaland Petroleum & Natural Gas Regulations, 2012, as well as related resolutions which have created the panic in the minds of the Nagas. As the Constitutional provision of Article 371 A, which protects and safeguards the Rights of Ownership of Land and its Resources, has unceremoniously infringed and thereby undermined the supremacy of Parliament, only Parliament can take away Article 371A if it so decides.

Sir, the then Hon. Minister for Petroleum & Natural Gas, in reply to Unstarred Question No. 2423, dated 10th March 2011, put by Dr. Mahesh Joshi, said, I quote, “However in accordance with Article 371A of the Constitution of India, the Nagaland State Assembly on 26th July 2010 had passed a Resolution that in respect of 'Ownership and transfer of Land and its Resources', including Mineral Oil, no Act of Parliament shall apply to the State of Nagaland". In this regard, Ministry of Law and Justice, Govt. of India, is of the opinion that the term 'Land and its Resources' in Article 371A would include mineral oil and their resources and the State of Nagaland would have the power to frame its own law, regarding ownership and transfer of such land and resources under Article 371A. So, the resolution passed by Nagaland Assembly is constitutionally correct and its validity is unquestionable.

Hence, the Government of India is urged upon to respect and honour the Constitutional provisions of Article 371A in our future relation in both, letter and spirit.


श्री नरेन्द्र कुमार कश्यप (उत्तर प्रदेश): महोदय, हाल ही में देश की सरकार ने तेलंगाना को अलग राज्य बनाने पर सकारात्मक रुख अपनाया है, जो देश के विकास के लिए एक मजबूत कड़ी साबित होगा और इससे पूर्व उत्तर प्रदेश की तत्कालीन मुख्य मंत्री सुश्री मायावती जी ने उत्तराखंड को अलग प्रदेश बनवाकर देश के विकास में एक नया अध्याय जोड़ा। इसके अलावा भी अनेक राज्यों यथा पंजाब, हरियाणा, झारखंड, छत्तीसगढ़, महाराष्ट्र, गुजरात, आदि के निर्माण से इन प्रदेशों के करोड़ों लोग लाभान्वित हुए हैं।

(4c/DS पर जारी)


श्री नरेन्द्र कुमार कश्यप (क्रमागत): लेकिन, अभी भी कई प्रदेश ऐसे हैं, जो घनी आबादी व विषम परिस्थितियों की वजह से अपेक्षित विकास नहीं कर पा रहे हैं। इनमें जम्मू-कश्मीर सबसे ज्वलंत उदाहरण है, जहाँ भौगोलिक, भाषायी, सांस्कृतिक व संवैधानिक विषमताओं के कारण असुरक्षा, अराजकता व विकासविहीन वातावरण बना रहता है और अनेक बार यह बाह्य व आंतरिक अशांति का शिकार होता रहता है। आज भी वहाँ लोग आन्दोलित हैं, विस्फोटक घटनाएँ हो रही हैं और हालात बेकाबू हैं।

उपरोक्त परिस्थितियों में कश्मीर व जम्मू को अलग राज्य बनाना तथा लेह-लद्दाख को यू.टी. घोषित किया जाना बहुत ही न्यायसंगत है। वैसे भी, इस प्रदेश में कश्मीर व जम्मू में पहले से ही विधान मंडल भवन, सचिवालय, प्रशासनिक कार्यालय आदि जो भी नये राज्य के लिए जरूरी व्यवस्थाएँ होती हैं, विद्यमान हैं और पूरे जम्मू-कश्मीर व लेह-लद्दाख में बसने वाले लोग इस तर्कसंगत विचार से पूर्णतया सहमत हैं।

अत: मैं आपके माध्यम से केन्द्र व जम्मू-कश्मीर की सरकार से यह अनुरोध करता हूँ कि वे अविलम्ब जम्मू व कश्मीर को अलग राज्य बनाने तथा लेह-लद्दाख को यू.टी. बनाने की घोषणा करें।


MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Ambeth Rajan, not here. Shri Y.S. Chowdary, not here. Shri Ram Kripal Yadav, not here. Shrimati Gundu Sudharani, not here. Shri Parshottam Khodabhai Rupala.

SHRI PARSHOTTAM KHODABHAI RUPALA (GUJARAT): Sir, due to increase in various diseases in masses, rising population, there is an increase in demand for various medicines, which results in availability of duplicate medicines in the market which severely impacts human health. Due to lack of awareness about duplicate medicines and drugs, people are buying medicines from the market. Further, pharmaceutical companies are also increasing their production capacities without any control or clearance from any Government agency. Due to the increase in demand for generic drugs, the gap between demand and supply has also increased. As per the World Bank report, 35 per cent of medicines are produced in our nation and thousands of crores of duplicate medicines are also manufactured in our nation.

Due to lack of proper mechanism to trace out duplicate medicines, precious human lives are in danger. I request the Central Government to take urgent fruitful action at the earliest so as to curb these activities in consultation with the State Governments. (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri C.M. Ramesh, not here. Shri Chaudhary Munavver Saleem.

चौधरी मुनव्वर सलीम (उत्तर प्रदेश): महोदय, भारतवर्ष दुनिया में मानवीय सम्वेदनाओं और मानवाधिकारों के रक्षक के रूप में पहचाना जाता है। इसी के साथ, मेरे देश को यह गौरव प्राप्त है कि इसमें अक़ल्लीयतों की तादाद किसी मुस्लिम मुल्क से ज्यादा है और हमारा संविधान अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय के संरक्षण और हिफाज़त के प्रति प्रतिबद्धता का इज़हार करता है।

(4डी/एमसीएम पर जारी)


चौधरी मुनव्वर सलीम (क्रमागत) : किन्तु पिछले दिनों जावेद नामक युवक की तिहाड़ जेल में मौत ने एक सवाल खड़ा कर दिया है, जिसके संबंध में मैंने गृह मंत्री, भारत सरकार से दिनांक 7-5-2013 को शिकायत कर हस्तक्षेप करने का अनुरोध किया था। अफसोस की बात यह है कि उसी तिहाड़ जेल में चंद माह पश्चात दिनांक 10-8-2013 को एक और मौत नदीम नामक नौजवान की हुई है। मैं इन निर्मम हादसों के कारण बहुत दुखी हूं और इंसाफ चाहता हूं। महोदय, मैं भारत सरकार से इस संबंध में संज्ञान लेने की मांग करते हुए कार्यवाही कर दोषी अधिकारियों और अपराधियों के विरुद्ध आपराधिक मुकदमे बनाए जाने की मांग करता हूं।

महोदय, मैं उम्मीद करता हूं कि मानवीय मूल्यों और अल्पसंख्यकों के संरक्षण के प्रति बार-बार प्रतिबद्धता प्रकट करने वाली केन्द्र सरकार इस संबंध में हस्तक्षेप कर न्याय दिलाने की दिशा में कदम उठाएगी, ताकि पूरी दुनिया में भारत की निष्पक्ष छवि कायम हो। एक शेर के साथ मैं अपनी बात का अंत करता हूं:

वो कत्ल भी करते हैं तो चर्चा नहीं होती,

हम आह भी भरते हैं तो हो जाते हैं बदनाम ।“

बहुत-बहुत शुक्रिया, धन्यवाद।


چودھری منوّر سلیم (اتّر پردیش) : مہودے، بھارت ورش دنیا میں مانوئے سمویدناؤں اور مانو-ادھیکاروں کے رکشک کے روپ میں پہچانا جاتا ہے۔ اسی کے ساتھہ، میرے دیش کو یہ گورو حاصل ہے کہ اس میں اقلّیتوں کی تعداد کسی مسلم ملک سے زیادہ ہے اور ہمارا سنودھان الپ-سنخیک سمودائے کے سنرکشن اور حفاظت کے پرتی، پرتی-بدّھتا کا اظہار کرتا ہے۔ لیکن پچھلے دنوں جاوید نامی شخص کی تہاڑ جیل میں موت نے ایک سوال کھڑا کر دیا ہے، جس کے سمبندھہ میں، میں نے گرہ منتری، بھارت سرکار سے بتاریخ 2013-5-7 کو شکایت کر دخل دینے کا انورودھہ کیا تھا۔ افسوس کی بات یہ ہے کہ اسی تہاڑ جیل میں چند ماہ بعد بتاریخ 2013-8-10 کو ایک اور موت ندیم نامی نوجوان کی ہوئی ہے۔ میں اس نرمم حادثوں کے کارن بہت دکھی ہوں اور انصاف چاہتا ہوں۔

مہودے، میں بھارت سرکار سے اس سمبندھہ میں سنگیان لینے کی مانگ کرتے ہوئے کاروائی کر دوشی ادھیکاریوں اور اپرادھیوں کے خلاف اپرادھک مقدمے بنائے جانے کی مانگ کرتا ہوں۔

مہودے، میں امید کرتا ہوں کہ مانوئے-مولیوں اور الپ-سنخیکوں کے سنرکشن کے پرتی بار-بار پرتی-بدّھہ پرکٹ کرنے والی کیندر سرکار اس سمبندھہ مین ہستکشیپ کر نیائے دلانے کی دشا میں قدم اٹھائے گی، تاکہ پوری دنیا میں بھارت کی نشپکش چھوی قائم ہو۔ ایک شعر کے ساتھہ میں اپنی بات کا خاتمہ کرتا ہوں:

وہ قتل بھی کرتے ہیں تو چرچا نہیں ہوتی

ہم آہ بھی بھرتے ہیں تو ہو جاتے ہیں بدنام

بہت بہت شکریہ، دھنیواد۔

(ختم شد)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The House stands adjourned till 11.00 a.m. on Monday, 19th August, 2013.


The House then adjourned at forty-five minutes past five of the clock till eleven of the clock on Monday, the 19th August, 2013.

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