Notes from a think tank

Protect our sannyasis from women

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Protect our sannyasis from women

Text COM:1738396 (37 lines)

From: Shyamasundara ACBSP
Date: 02-Oct-98 07:53
Subject: Protect our sannyasis from women
---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Letter COM:1725991 (23 lines)

From: Jayapataka Swami (GBC)
Date: 28-Sep-98 06:32
To: SV disciples [2462]
Cc: Hari Sauri (das) ACBSP [10834]
Cc: Prithu (das) ACBSP [13276] (received: 28-Sep-98 09:11)
Cc: Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Florida Vedic College - USA) [5141]
For: Global Free Forum
Reference: Text COM:1724140 by Subala (das) HKS (S)
Subject: Harikesa becoming OSHO member by force??!!
Camp: with ISKCON Loyals at St. Petersburg, Russia.

> A thought that come to my mind was also the fact that when Sri Visnupada

> was brought to this monie he was practicly forced to listen to her
> explinations and voice.The scriptures after all gives the warning that even
> a Mahabhagavat can fall down just by the fact of listening to the
> explination of a mayavadi .
> s.d

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu forbade his associates from listening to Mayavadi’s even though they were all liberated souls. Also Lord Sri krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu was so strict about association with women. WE have ignored all these advices and now we are paying the consequences.

In India Acaryas would have been protected from these dangers, but in the
West we sentimentally think the guru is beyond all these dangers and get

I hope that this finds you in good health.

Your well wisher,
Jayapataka Swami
(Text COM:1725991) ----------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Text COM:1762289 (263 lines) [W1]
From: Shyamasundara ACBSP
Date: 12-Oct-98 11:10
To: Jivan Mukta Dasa
Subject: DIS


> On women being less intelligent: almost all of the references given by
> Srila Prabhupada in his books group women with sudras and dvija bandhus
> (disqualified sons of the higher classes). In Kali yuga that includes just
> about everyone, male or female.
> “In human society all over the world there are millions and billions of
> men and women, and almost all of them are less intelligent because they
> have very little knowledge of spirit soul.” SB 2.3.1 purport.
> Less intelligent is also taken to mean not capable of directly understanding
> the import of the original Vedas, Vedanta, Upanisads, etc. Therefore the
> Bhagavatam and other Puranas and histories were provided for us.
> Given all this, the categorization of women as less intelligent, in the current
> global context, is not discriminatory. As far as ISKCON is concerned, there
> are a number of places where Srila Prabhupada says that once a person
> becomes a devotee, they are most intelligent, either male or female. So that
> is taken care of. What about the Vedic age--was the categorization
> discriminatory at that time? That requires us to go back to those times and
> analyze the matter in context. On the relative platform, the discrimination
> might be there, but it is clear that the ultimate stage of knowledge is not
> that derived from Vedic study but from pure devotion to Krishna, and the
> prime examples are the gopis, some of whom were reincarnations of Vedic
> scholars.

This kind of argument along with the perenial “Kalau sudra Sambhava” the

mahavakya of the feminsits are used by the feminists to equate men and women as being equal. But let us consider two things:

1) It is true that women are considered along with sudras, vaisyas and dvija

bandhus. But does that mean that now the wife of the sudra treats her
husband as other than her Lord? Or the wife of the Vaisya treat her husband
as an equal??

2) As I pointed out in an essay I posted to DoW in July intelligence as defined by the Vedas is not material but spiritual. Who can distinguish

spirit from matter is intelligent. While often quoting the phrase “kalau sudra sambhava” and other variations as above we forget what comes after this. The following statements by Srila Prabhupada clarify that though one is surely born a sudra in kali-yuga one need not stay a sudra but by samskara - initiation, and study of the Veda one becomes a Brahmana. The following texts look better in Bhashkara or equivalent texts.

The verse Srila Prabhupada is referring to is the following one from the

Manu Samhita:

janma jayate sudra

samskarad bhavet dvija
veda-pathad bhaved vipro
brahma-janatiti brahmanah

Please note that Srila Prabhupada didn’t want to give women Gayatri initiation. Last night I was talking to Pradyumna Prabhu. He told me some

interesting things. First of all the women didn’t live in the temple but at
home with their parents. He was at the first Barhminical initiation and SP
didn’t initiate the women. Govinda and Jadurani protested, so three days
later SP did a fire sacrifice for them and gave them Gayatri mantra BUT NO
BRAHMANA THREADS. Please note the significance of this especially in the
last quoted section. To pacify them he initiated them “sort of”, like giving a toy gun, but not the real gun.

Aside from that is that the whole point of ISKCON is to raise people above

the sudra level via the process mentioned in the verse above which SP
explains in depth below. Admittedly few of the members have gotten past the second line. That is, they got initiated and left it at that. They have not
studied the sastra in depth for self realization. I have met extremely few
women who know the sastras well, even the IWC bunch put forward only
Vishakha as being capable in this regard. As to the level of their
understanding and realization ...??? Not much if they are involved in
feminism. I was actually disappointed to see Vishakha involved with the
feminists. Some years ago she and another women wrote a very nice article
about how the woman should behave to win the heart of her husband in
reference to the story of Chyavana Rsi and Sukanya, but in the following
editions she got crucified in the letters section by the feminists and has since joined them.

Among the men I have seen many men who are very advanced in their study and understanding of Sastra (veda-pathad bhaved vipro), few however are on the GBC. One former GBC told me a few years ago that he had not read SP’s books past the 6th canto!!! So do we wonder why they do what they do.

As for who has made it to the fourth line I am not qualified to say.

This is not to say that a woman cannot achieve the perfection of love of God

as explained by Lord Krsna in the 9th chapter of the BG but even there He
says that it is even easier for the brahmana if a woman can achieve.

Our process is purification. Kåñëa consciousness means simply we are

purifying our consciousness. From the birth, as I have explained, everyone
is çüdra. Çüdra means one who laments. That is called çüdra. For a slight loss or slight inconvenience, one who laments, he is called çüdra. And brähmaëa means one who tolerates. A çüdra has no toleration. So kalau çüdra sambhava. Kalau means... This age is called Kali. So it is the statement of the çästras that in this age the whole population is çüdra. And formerly also, by his birth, everyone was considered çüdra, but there was training, saàskära. At the present moment, there is no saàskära, there is no training. The training is only for earning livelihood. No other training. How one can earn money and enjoy senses-that is the training at the present moment. But
actually, to make successful the human life or the mission of human life,
the Vedic culture is very nice. And by spreading Kåñëa consciousness, by
adopting the process of Kåñëa consciousness, you can revive that cultural
life, sublime life. If not wholesale, if there are a few people trained up in this line, and they become ideal examples to the society, immense benefit can be derived from their examples of life. What is time? [break] (kértana) (end) (Hawaii, March 27, 1969)

So vairägya-vidyä. This family attachment, and just the opposite thing is

vairägya-vidyä, how to become detached. This is the whole process of Vedic
civilization. Everyone has got this attachment for the body and expansion of
the body. So vairägya-vidyä means to be detached. That is called brahma-jïäna. Brahma-bhütaù prasannätmä na çocati na käìkñati [Bg. 18.54]. That is brahma-jïäna. As soon as you understand, ahaà brahmäsmi, “I am not this body, I am spirit soul,” this is called brahma-jïäna. So long you do not get this knowledge, you are in ignorance. That ignorance, there are degrees. In the sattva-guëa or in the modes of goodness, you can simply theoretically understand that “I am not this body.” That is sattva-guëa. Brahminical qualities. Çamo damas titikñä ärjavaà jïäna. Jïänaà vijïänam ästikyaà brahma-karma svabhäva-jam. When you... brahma-jänätéti brähmaëaù.
Brähmaëa means who has got the knowledge of brahma. Veda-paöhäd bhaved vipro brahma-jänätéti brähmaëaù janmanä jäyate çüdraù saàskäräd bhaved dvijaù.

So everyone is born çüdra, but by cultivation of knowledge and culture, one

can become... Saàskärät. Therefore, according to Vedic system, there are ten
kinds of saàskära, reformatory method. This upanayana-saàskära, this is also
one of the saàskära, sacred thread. Upanayana. Upa means near, and nayana
means bringing. When the spiritual master brings nearer to spiritual
consciousness, a person is given the upanayana, or the sacred thread. The
sacred thread is the indication that “This man is now under the control of
the spiritual master for advancing in Kåñëa consciousness.” This thread
ceremony. This is called upanayana. Similarly, there is reformatory method,
marriage, ten kinds of reformatory... The first beginning is garbhädhäna. So
these things are impossible to introduce now in this Kali-yuga. Therefore the only reformatory method is: harer näma harer näma harer nämaiva kevalam, kalau nästy eva nästy eva nästy eva gatir anyathä [Adi 17.21]. In this age of Kali, people are so fallen, so degraded, that it is not possible to
introduce systematically the whole Vedic principle; it is not possible. That is not possible. It is Caitanya Mahäprabhu’s grace, mercy, that He has given us mercifully, vairägya-vidyä-nija-bhakti, just to teach very short-cut method. What is that? Chant Hare Kåñëa. Simple. Simple.

Ceto-darpaëa-märjanaà bhava-mahä-dävägni [Cc. Antya 20.12]. You are

suffering in this material world, dävägni, now, forest fire. This material world is forest fire. But they are so ignorant, they cannot understand that
“We are burning in the blazing fire of this material existence. Our attempt
should be how to get out of it.” But there is no such knowledge. Just like
animals. The animals are suffering. They are being taken to the slaughterhouse. There is no, I mean, strength of protesting. They are being
slaughtered. So we are being also being slaughtered by the laws of nature.
We are also being slaughtered. So we do not know how to make progress. That is slaughtering. (Bhagavad-gétä 1.32-35--London, July 25, 1973)

Anyway, we should always be in conscious that everything that we have in our possession, even our body, even our mind, even our energy, everything, that is God-gifted. One who has got this conception of life, he is brähmaëa. He

is the one who knows Brahman. One who does not know this and simply lives for sense gratification, he is called the miser. So we shall not be miser.
We shall be the brähmaëa. That should be our... And there is no restriction.
Don’t think that because you are born in America, you cannot become a
brähmaëa. No, you can become a brähmaëa. There is no restriction. Brahma
jänätéti brähmaëaù. The formula is that janmanä jäyate çüdraù saàskäräd
bhaved dvijaù. Janmanä jäyate çüdraù. Everyone who is born, first born by
the father and mother... Then he is called a çüdra. Even he is born in a
brähmaëa family, he is called a çüdra. Then saàskäräd bhaved dvijaù. Then,
by culture... The cultural birth is called the second birth, dvija. The higher caste in India, they are called dvija. Dvija means the first birth by father and mother, that is... Animal birth and man birth is the same because the process is the same. But unless one takes his birth by higher culture, he cannot be called dvija.

Sometimes the birds are also called dvija. Dvija means twice-born. Twice-born. Just like the birds... The sea bird lays the egg first, and then it is fomented. And from the, I mean to, the egg, the cub comes out, the offspring comes out-the second birth. Therefore birds are also sometimes called dvija. Similarly human and higher status of life, they must have twice-born. Therefore the brähmaëas, the kñatriyas, and the vaiçyas, this thread, this thread is the sign that “My second birth has been done.” This is the emblem. This upavéta, upanayanam, this is the sign. In India higher caste you will find this sacred thread. Sacred thread means when he is accepted, when he is given the second birth, this thread ceremony, there is a thread ceremony. So second birth means saàskära, saàskära, reformation, reformation. It doesn’t matter where and how he is born. It doesn’t matter.

The other day I cited the example of Jäbäli Upaniñad. He could not say even
his father’s name. But because he was so sincere that he declared before
Gautama Muni that “Either my mother or myself, I do not know who is my
father,” Gautama Muni ac..., “Oh, you are brähmaëa. You are truthful. You are truthful.” So these are the qualifications, saàskära, cultural birth. Cultural birth makes the twice-born. Saàskäräd bhaved dvijaù. Janmanä jäyate. By birth everyone is çüdra. And when he is reformed, when he is culturally rebirth, taken rebirth, then he is dvija, twice-born. And after being dvija, veda-paöhäd bhaved vipraù. Veda-paöhät means this knowledge, scriptural knowledge, Vedic wisdom. By studying this Vedic wisdom he becomes a vipra. And after studying, when he knows, “Oh, I am spiritual. I am not this matter,” and he knows the constitution of himself, constitution of the Supreme Lord, then he is brähmaëa. Therefore the whole mission of human
society should be how to prepare brähmaëa. Then peace and prosperity will be there. If you keep them just like cats and dogs in the platform of çüdra,
how can you expect? Do you mean to say there is any peace in the dog society? No. That is not possible. Peace can be had only, really-human

So this is the culture. The Vedic, whole Vedic culture is to make a man a

brähmaëa, not to keep him in the çüdra stage, not to. Every father has to take care. The state has to take care, the teacher has to take care-how to
make the children, the poor children, the innocent children, to..., a perfect brähmaëa. The whole culture is like that. You see? so Bhagavad-gétä teaches that. And don’t become... Don’t remain in the çüdra stage and a miser, but just try to become a brähmaëa by culture. Then your life will be successful. (Bhagavad-gétä 2.48-49--New York, April 1, 1966)

Brähmaëa... Brahma jänäti. One must know what is Kåñëa. Paraà brahma paraà dhäma pavitraà para... [Bg. 10.12]. Brahma. Brahma jänätéti brähmaëaù. One who is aware of Kåñëa, what is Kåñëa, he is above brähmaëa. Brähmaëa qualification is already there. Because a brähmaëa means one who knows Kåñëa, Parabrahman. That is brähmaëa. Brahma jänätéti brähmaëaù. Veda-päöhäd bhaved vipro brahma jänätéti brähmaëaù. Janmanä jäyate çüdraù saàskäräd bhaved dvijaù, veda-päöhäd bhaved vipro brahma jänätéti brähmaëaù. This is the process.

Janmanä, by birth, everyone is çüdra or caëòäla. Those who are satisfied
that “I have taken birth in my brähmaëa family, so now my business is over.” No. Janmanä jäyate çüdraù. The birth by the father and mother, that is
çüdra, that is not brähmaëa. Saàskära. If a man is born brähmaëa, then why
there is necessity of sacred thread ceremony? No. That is the saàskära.
Saàskära means the sacred thread is the symbol. It is offered by the äcärya.
It is the certificate that “This boy has been trained up as a brähmaëa.”
Therefore the sacred thread is a symbolic presentation. Not that to purchase
one two-paise worth sacred thread and one becomes brähmaëa. No. Now, of
course, in Kali-yuga... Vipratve sütram eva hi. In Kali-yuga this will go on. Vipratve. A brähmaëa, kñatriya, çüdra, brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya. Simply purchase one thread from the market and get it on your body and you
become.... Vipratve sütram eva hi. No, that is not actually. It is a qualification and it is certificate. One who has got the sacred thread, that means...Just like in our Vedic system, one has got the red mark on the forehead, one woman. It is to be understood that she is married. Similarly, one who has got the sacred thread means that he has approached qualified äcärya, and the äcärya has recognized him as brähmaëa. This is sacred thread, not that
purchase one sacred thread and get it and become a brähmaëa. No. This is
very important thing. And then divide. First of all educate. Where is that
education? Of course, this is meant for...At least in India, Indians should be educated as brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, çüdra. That is Caitanya Mahäprabhu’s mission. (Bhagavad-gétä 4.15-Bombay, April 4, 1974)
(Text COM:1762289) -----------------------------------------

Text COM:1762457 (16 lines)

From: Shyamasundara ACBSP
Date: 12-Oct-98 14:05
Subject: DIS Grihastha Sex Life?
> > These guys are gurus? Ridiculous! Bhakti Tirtha was travelling around
> > giving seminars on grhastha sex-life. I wonder how much longer he has
> > got?
> >
> What was he saying about it? I’m not against such a thing if what he says
> is in line with our sampradaya. ys KKdas.

Our only complaint is when they go off on tangents so as to align with what

ever is popular now. I prefer to try to conform myself to the eternal truths
which stay the same. Past present or future.

The Vedas are eternal, and the teachings are true for eternity. But the 90’s

will come and go. WHo would have thought in 1982 that in less than 10 years the USSR would only exist in history books?

I say stick with the eternal and let the ephemeral go its own illusory way.

(Text COM:1762457) -----------------------------------------

Letter COM:1766136 (38 lines)

From: Internet: Sita Devi Dasi
Date: 14-Oct-98 00:14
To: Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Florida Vedic College - USA) [5837]
Subject: they don’t like Prabhupada’s purports!
>>Date: Sun, 25 Jan 98 09:07 -0700
>>From: “Edwin Bryant”
>>To: “COM: IWC (Internat. Women’s Conference)”
>>To: “COM: Madhusudani Radha JPS”
>>Subject: Re: VAST
>>Lines: 25
>>Dear Karala DD,
>> PAMHO AGSP Thanks you for your excellent comments. I agree
>>with everything you say. When I consider my own lusty state of mind,
>>I am impressed that Krsna Consciousness has produced at least some
>>yoginis, at least, who are able to concentrate on their devotional service
>>without undue sexual agitation. I think Hari DD should forward your
>>remarks to our VAST conference. Our discussion is continuing since I think
>>it is imperative that we locate the exact references in primary Sanskrit
>>sources on the basis of which Prabhupada made his comments that women
>>are less intelligent. This is imperative because this is the root of the
>>problem. Until the root is exposed, chauvanistic male devotees will
>>continue to brandish “Prabhupada said..” statments in support of sexist
>>attitudes. If you, or any of the ladies, can locate such sources (ie in a
>>Sanskrit quote--not in Prabhupada’s purports), then please forward them
>>to VAST so that we can all examine the exact Sasnkrit word used in the
>>text which Prabhupada has translated as “less intelligent”, as well as
>>analyize the context of the verse. Perhaps Hari can continue to post the
>>discussion from VAST to you all since Hridayanada M’raj and other
>>devotees have contributed and this topic is obviously relevant to your
>>own conference. YS APD
(Text COM:1766136) -----------------------------------------
Text COM:1803293 (32 lines)
From: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
Date: 27-Oct-98 15:20
To: GHQ [434]
To: Jivan Mukta Dasa (sent: 27-Oct-98 15:26)
Subject: WHO- Advaita
> > Text COM:1054625 (63 lines)
> > From: Internet: Edwin Bryant
> > Date: 22-Jan-98 23:31
> > To: VAST (Vaishnava Advanced Studies) [432]
> > Reference: Text COM:1054583 by Brahmatirtha (das) ACBSP (Tallahassee)
> > Subject: Re: Feminism, etc
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > I agree. If anything it is the men who are lustier. But I doubt the female
> > form per se is any more attractive to men, than the male form is to
> > women. So the larger number of girlie magazines either indicates that
> > men are lustier, or if intensity of lust is not a gendered issue, then such
> > disparity indicates social/power issues at play.
> >
> > So we are left with accounting for this idea of women being nine times
> > more lusty in Prabhupada’s books. Does anyone know of any textual

But chanakya says that. Also if I get to know which verse of the SB

Prabhupada mentions this nine times, I can look up in the previous acaryas’
commentaries on the SB to see where it is quoted from.

> One reference to this is in the Narada pancaratra in reference to the

> creation of the Kamini. Regardin 9x lustier, this in not necessarily regarding
> sex but in regards to materialic mentality in general--acqusitiveness and
> consumerism etc. Of course it is well known that a woman’s lust once
> ignited is not easily quenched whereas a man’s is.

Very nice points.

(Text COM:1803293) -----------------------------------------
Even though a Vairagini, being in a woman’s body she was considered “half”:
Text COM:1803294 (13 lines)
From: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
Date: 27-Oct-98 15:20
To: GHQ [435]
Reference: Text COM:1761414 by Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP
Subject: CON/WHO Ydd. to Sdd. re: women GBC
> I believe that the 1/2 vote has nothing to do with the woman being half of
> a couple but rather that she is considered as 1/2 period. My reason is as
> follows Lord Caitanya had 3 1/2 intimate associates. If I recall them
> correctly they are Svarupa Damodara, Ramananda Raya, Shikhi Mahiti, and
> Sikhi Mahati’s sister. She was the 1/2. She was a pure devotee but in a
> woman’s body. the name of the brother and sister may be wrong. It has
> been sometime since I read CC. Basu Ghosh will know.

Correct. She was Madhavi Devi (a Vairagini according to Gopala Bhatta

Goswami). She being a woman is half.


(Text COM:1803294) -----------------------------------------

Text COM:1803296 (17 lines)

From: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
Date: 27-Oct-98 15:20
To: GHQ [437]
Subject: Re: DIS Various
> Also, I remember reading somewhere a statement attributed to
> Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja to the affect that his objective was to destroy
> western civilization. Can that be verified and if so can I get the
> specific reference i.e. where and when he said it?

There was a large sized book on Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, I think it was called

Sarasvati Thakura, published by Mandala Press or Publishers. I think they
are on WWW.

Inside the book, there was a full size bw picture of BSST walking with some

Governor or someone, and He was dressed in coat, I think. And these words
were written, i remember very clearly:

“Western civilization must be crushed.”

(Text COM:1803296) -----------------------------------------

Text COM:1803919 (35 lines)

From: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
Date: 27-Oct-98 18:36
To: GHQ [461]
Subject: My reply to XXX mataji
> Partial replies by Basu Ghosh to a budding women’s libber from a
> brahmana family.

I think I know this so-called brahmani. She is from my region :-)

She went to a saffron clad brahmachari and proposed to marry him. This guy
NEVER wanted to marry. She used her womanly tactics and threatened that she will kill herself, etc. All bogus anyway. Then her guru was informed and he blasted her for having approached a saffron clad brahmachari and having
threatened him. She said, anyway, I want to marry him and that’s it. Anyway she married him. What to do. She is a tough nut.

Apart from these considerations, she was one person who preached to me to be off the DOW since it is not good for being a brahmachari. I thought she was sincerely trying to help my spiritual life but now I don’t know what to say.

And in mayapur, we have another one Indian lady who was taught by an
American who looked into her eyes, and said, “YOU are an INDIVIDUAL. You are NOT SIMPLY a wife. You have to express your talents and shine!” etc. She was married to her husband for about 6 years or so. Her husband once confided to me, “All these six years, whenever she came up with any proposal on what to do, I did. But after seeing this American lady, she started to argue with me and fight with me. I no longer could agree with her. This led to further fights. I got wild! Now our relationship is strained. We still do our duties, but she goes along with the Westerners and wants to know what’s wrong in doing all kinds of devotional services!” I feel sorry for this husband. He is such a gem of a devotee. If this lady could fry out such a
gentle and nice devotee so much, it reveals how much she has been poisoned.

This is my irritation: why are these bogus American ideas presented as if

they are sastric/Prabhupada-based? And why do these people get to the Indian ladies? Are they not satisfied to keep their garbage with them? This makes me wild.

yhs vgd
(Text COM:1803919) -----------------------------------------

Text COM:1803921 (37 lines)
From: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
Date: 27-Oct-98 18:36
To: GHQ [462]
To: (sent: 27-Oct-98 18:42)
Subject: Lord Caitanya and Varnasrama

Here is a a quote from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Bhakty-aaloka (Chapter

“Sadhu-vrtti). This can be added in your article somewhere.

Srila Ramananda Raya said that the process for achieving the supreme goal of life is given in the Visnu Purana as follows:

varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman
visnur aradhyate pantha nanyat tat-tosa-karanam

“One can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, by proper

discharge of the principles of varna and asrama. There is no alternative to
pacifying the Lord by execution of the principles of the varnasrama system.”
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, however, rejected this process as external and
requested him to give a higher conclusion. The purport of Sri Caitanya’s
statement is this: “O Ramananda! Varnasrama-dharma is meant to regulate the gross and subtle bodies. If someone is satisfied only in that, without
engaging in devotional service of Krsna, then what is his gain? Therefore,
although the process of varnasrama is the only means of purification for a
conditioned soul, still it is not external.” As stated in Srimad-Bhavagatam

dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah

notpadayed yadi ratim srama eva hi kevalam

“The occupational activities a man performs according to his own position

are only so much useless labor if they do not provoke attraction for the
message of the Personality of Godhead.” From this one should not conclude
that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has ordered us to discard varnasrama-dharma. If that would have been the case, then He would not have instructed all living entities through His pastimes of completely following the orders of grhastha and sannyasa. As long as one has a material body the system of varnasrama dharma must be followed, but it should remain under the full control and domination of bhakti.”

yhs vgd
(Text COM:1803921) -----------------------------------------

Text COM:(44 lines)
From: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
Date: 29-Oct-98 02:24
To: GHQ [500]
Subject: CON Have you heard this?
I sent to him the declaration of so called equal rights and this is what he

yhs vgd

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Letter COM:1806030 (29 lines)

From: xyz
Date: 28-Oct-98 13:20
To: Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN) [10038]
Subject: Have you heard this?
As Canakya says, “ A fool is only discovered when he opens his mouth.” It
never ceases to amaze me just how blatantly stupid these people have become.

We need to be as swift and strong as the Catholic church in dealing with

heresies like these! We actually need an inquisition run by level-headed
people to weed these people out of our society. This may sound quite radical, but this cancer is spreading so swiftly in ISKCON it should be dealt with ruthlessly.

Unfortunately we have no strong leaders - no one has the guts to speak the

truth any more in case they are labeled as a “--------” (fill in the blank as you feel appropriate).Therefore I can only foresee the inevitable - the GBC will compromise with their blasphemies - after all, they wouldn’t want to be seen by the karmis as chauvinists, would they? That’s the whole reason why Malati was made a GBC - remember what my Guru Maharaja told us when we went to speak to him?

However, these people have fallen into the same trap as the Buddhists - in

Cc Madhya 4, Srila Prabhupada refutes the nine tenets of Buddhism. The last
tenet is that one should be compassionate to all. However, Prabhupada states that this cannot be an absolute principle - it is subjective because you can only be compassionate to one who is on a lower platform than you. Similarly, the women ask for protection, yet that means that they are inadvertently declaring themselves as subordinate to men. How can you ask an equal (or someone who is lower than you) to give you shelter?

So, in conclusion, if they are taking shelter of buddhistic siddhanta (which

is further established in the way that they are rejecting the injunctions of
the Vedic scripture) we should deal with them as Buddhists - ostracize them!
Text COM:1834193 (63 lines)
From: Shyamasundara ACBSP
Date: 07-Nov-98 13:58
To: Jivan Mukta Dasa
Reference: Text COM:1829897 by Internet: Jivan Mukta Dasa
Comment: Text COM:1839873 by Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)
Subject: DIS Attempting to follow Krsna’s laws versus envy of them

> >One thing is for sure: even I can’t claim to be living a 100% “vedic”

> >lifestyle”.
> Prabhu. IT never was a case of any of us living a 100% Vedic lifestyle.
> Th issue always was and remains, what are the ultimate objectives of
> ISKCON? If we are even stlightly off in our trajectory, we will be hundreads
> of yojanas away from our actual destination. That is the issue?
> We need to establish a consensus as to where this movement should be in
>100, 200, 1000 years from now. The GBC has completely mishandled the
> guru situation from day one. They are doing the same thing with this
> women’s issue. They should be very careful in making any decision unless > > they can see how it will lead to the final goal.

The following verse and purport from BG 3.31 (one of my personal favorites)

explains the situation perfectly.

ye me matam idam nityam

anutisthanti manavah
sraddhavanto ‘nasuyanto
mucyante te ‘pi karmabhih


Those persons who execute their duties according to My injunctions and who
follow this teaching faithfully, without envy, become free from the bondage
of fruitive actions.

The injunction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, is the essence of all Vedic wisdom and therefore is eternally true without exception. As the Vedas are eternal, so this truth of Krsna consciousness is also eternal. One should have firm faith in this injunction, without envying the Lord. There are many philosophers who write comments on the Bhavagad-gita but have no faith in Krsna. They will never be liberated from the bondage of fruitive action. But an ordinary man with firm faith in the eternal injunctions of the Lord, even though unable to execute such orders, becomes liberated from the bondage of the law of karma. In the beginning of Krsna consciousness, one may not fully discharge the injunctions of the Lord, but because one is not resentful of this principle and works sincerely without consideration of defeat and hopelessness, he will surely be promoted to the stage of pure Krsna consciousness.


The point being that even we are unable to follow what Krsna has said we

must do (varnashrama, Vedic lifestyle etc.) still we accept that these laws
are valid even if we can’t follow them. We try our best by all means to
follow them and our sincere attempt, even though failing, will be seen by
Krsna. We don’t try to rationalize and say that the laws are wrong and what
we do is okay. Rather the laws are correct, and it is us who are imperfect not the laws. Thus we do not resent and envy Krsna for making such rules but humbly recognize how VERY fallen we are and instead of attempting to change the laws we attempt to change ourselves.

Our position is that we want to conform to Krsna’s laws. Their position is that they don’t like the rules (for whatever reasons) so let’s change them.

(Text COM:1834193) -----------------------------------------
Letter COM:1855532 (36 lines)
From: Bhadra Balaram (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
Date: 16-Nov-98 08:38
To: GCD (Grhastha Culture Dialogue) [486]
To: (International) Women’s Ministry [341]
To: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [7420] (received: 16-Nov-98
To: WWW: Srila (Dasa) ACBSP (Berkeley )
Subject: why deviate from Srila Prabhupada’s teaching?
>But why do we as devotees have to formulate our opinions, outlook &
>philosophy on the basis of the thoughts of such atheistic persons?

God knows why!!! I also wonder why after receiving such a sublime teaching

from an empowerd acarya some devotees have to so pitiably lean towards
mundane scholers most of whom, as you said may be “beef eating, wine
drinking demons”. And even if they are not such demons and if one wants to
learn good things from them, why deviate from Srila Prabhupada’s teaching?
Isn’t this simply maya! Please don’t get scarred by or angry at this word.
It’s very much there as a force behind such deviations.

This shows how some devotees have understood neither the teaching of Srila

Prabhuapda nor the value of it. If someone says SP’s idea doesn’t practically work these days (anywhere in the world) that simply means he/she needs to read and learn more about Srila Prabhupada’s teaching. Period. Please don’t start cheap arguments here and shout at me like “do you mean you are the only one who understands SP?”, etc... No I don’t mean that. But seeing some senior devotees quoting full-fledged mundane scholars on vital issues like Vaisnava atiquette, Varnasram-dharma, etc. pains me a lot.

Honestly, I remembered my school days when I was reading one of Srila

Prabhu’s (ACBSP) current texts wherein he has quoted many mundane scholars. Did any of those scholars practiced Vedic life? Then what is the use of it when we are talking about Vedic life?

When I say “vedic” I mean to say everything that is according to Vedas, the

books which Srila Prabhuapda compares with law books for mankind, and not “Wherever we find the truth, that is *Veda.*” a very impersonal meaning.

Please, when someone writes, remember that we are ISKCON members which is necessarily a society to be governed by Srila Prabhupada’s teachings which is based strictly on Vedic scriptures. Does anyone have any doubt in this? If yes, then again, that simply means he/she needs to read and learn more about Srila Prabhupada’s teaching. Hare Krishna!

ys, bb
(Text COM:1855532) -----------------------------------------

Prabhupada said:

So who is going to mop these two rooms? The ladies (indistinct). It is the
ladies’ business. Ladies’ business. (REF. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.3.18-19 -- Gorakhpur, February 12,1971)

“Himavati, would you like to go to India and learn to carry this waterpot

like the Indian women?” (REF. SPL 26: Swamiji’s Departure)

Speaking with Kausalyä and Srimati, Prabhupäda praised them for having

arranged the Jaipur pandal program. “You girls are carrying on Lord
Caitanya’s movement so nicely,” he said. “Just see! Even without husbands,
you go on preaching.” He said that the Western women were different from
Indian women, who simply stayed at home.

Then Prabhupäda discovered that his two women disciples had not actually

done a thorough job. Although the pandal program was to begin in two days,
no one had arranged for the large tent to be erected. Prabhupäda said it was
not a woman’s nature to do such organizational work. The women became morose to hear him. When they showed him the flyer they had printed advertising the festival, Prabhupäda became angry. “It is not standard,” he said. It did not say “International Society for Krishna Consciousness,” but only “A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami and his foreign disciples.”
“What is this!” Prabhupäda shouted.
“What, Srila Prabhupäda?” Kausalya asked.
“Foreign! Why do you say foreign? It must be “American’ and “European’. That is what is attractive, that they are American and European. But you are just a woman. What can I expect?” The two women began to cry and left the room. (REF. SPL 38: No One Listens to a Poor Man)


“As I understand it Maharaj, GHQ is going to be a think tank with the mandate to prepare a paper with proposals to the GBC to check apasiddhanta in the form of “feminism” in ISKCON. So...”

(...Only the beginning, not


of GHQ)

(Please visit the GHQ website at:)


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