Note: See also the files: Russia-msg, East-Eur-msg, Hungary-msg, yurts-msg, livestock-msg, kumiss-msg, dairy-prod-msg



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Mongol culture, bibliography. Mongol horses.
NOTE: See also the files: Russia-msg, East-Eur-msg, Hungary-msg, yurts-msg, livestock-msg, kumiss-msg, dairy-prod-msg.
************************************************************************

NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************


From: NAHUM HAZEV (6/14/93)

To: markh at terminator

Yurt (from Corun)

From:"Corun MacAnndra" 11-JUN-1993 09:02:45.92

To: IN%"FNKLSHTN at ACFcluster.NYU.EDU"

Subj: RE: Yurt


Greetings and peace,
Yes, I could send some cultural info on the yurt as well. Some points

of interest. When setting up the yurt, put the door facing southeast.

This was done so that light coming in the roof ring during would light

specific parts of the yurt at the proper time of the day. For example,

by the end of the day, the light would fall on the kitchen area where

dinner was prepared. There was a man's side and a woman's side to the

yurt. There was a cosmology to the yurt as well, linking it with the

universe. In the center of the yurt is the hearth. Opposite the door

on the far side of the yurt is the altar. Clockwise from the door and

around the hearth we have seating for the man's guests, the honoured

guest, the man, the woman, the woman's honoured guest, women's guests,

until coming back to just right of the door (facing into the yurt) we

have the place for the children and servants. This is also the kitchen

side of the yurt. On the women's side is also the bed. Also, the yurt

is owned by the woman, whose job is to maintain the home and hearth,

and to raise the children and make the felt etc. The men own the herds,

and hunt and protect. A Mongol adage is to never have more wives than

yurts. The idea being that each wife had her own and there was no

rivalry between wives.
The cosmology that I spoke of above goes like this; the hearth, the

hearth square, the yurt, the four corners of the earth, the earth,

the universe. Thus all was linked with the home, and the home being

mobile was always part of the universe.


I hope this helps. I'll send plans as soon as I can.
In service,

Corun


From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Terms of Venery

Date: 2 Jul 93 04:10:48

Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
deane at binah.cc.brandeis.edu (David Matthew Deane) writes:

] I suppose a group of mongols is a horde


If you're a barbarian European, maybe. "Horde" is a corruption

of the Mongol "ordu", which means "homeland" more than "bunch of".

The only Mongol group-name I can recall right now is "tumen":

a military unit of (when formed) 10,000 Mongols, I think.

--

Dennis O'Connor doconnor at sedona.intel.com



From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Chinese - yes or no ??

Date: 29 Jun 1993 16:08:13 -0400

Organization: MIT LCS guest machine
Fiacha writes:
>I do not know of any Mongol games so I make no judgement in that area.
The two principal Mongol games of which I am aware are Nishapur and

Rug-by (but you need an Abbasid and a cavalry turma to play the latter).


Hossein/Greg

From: corun at access.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Chinese - yes or no ??

Date: 29 Jun 1993 19:08:28 -0400

Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA


In article <20q7fd$2o0 at bronze.lcs.mit.edu> greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose) writes:

>Fiacha writes:

>

>>I do not know of any Mongol games so I make no judgement in that area.



>

>The two principal Mongol games of which I am aware are Nishapur and

>Rug-by (but you need an Abbasid and a cavalry turma to play the latter).
There is another called Aklagh Tarteesh, which translates loosely as "picking

up sheep at a gallop." No, really.


Corun

==============================================================================

Corun MacAnndra | God runs electromagnetics on Mon., Wed. and Fri. by

Dark Horde by birth | the wave theory and the Devil runs it by quantum

Moritu by choice | theory Tue., Thur. and Sat. -- Sir Wm. Bragg

From: adelekta at kentvm.kent.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Chinese - yes or no ??

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 13:07:03 EST

Organization: Kent State Univ.


corun at access.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra) writes:

>There is another called Aklagh Tarteesh, which translates loosely as "picking

>up sheep at a gallop." No, really.

This sounds remarkably similar to bozkashi, a central asian game whose name

translates as "goat catch." These livestock games sound like a pretty common

nomadic pastime... :)

-Zimra al-Ghaziyah

From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Baptism (was Neo Paga

Date: 11 Aug 93 08:02:44
bettina.helms at channel1.com (Bettina Helms) writes:

] SH> CLB> However, from other posts, I see that a "baptism" implies that

] SH> CLB> it is a "Christian baptism". I am not planning a Christian baptism.

]

] SH>Ok. Then it's not a baptism in any usual sense, since the custom of either



] SH>dripping water, or dunking the person in it, is a Christian ceremony that

] SH>so far as I have ever heard doesn't have an exact analogy to any other

] SH>religion. Many religions have some sort of ceremony welcoming the new

] SH>person, but they aren't specifically baptisms.

]

] Such fragmentary records as we have of the Eleusinian Mysteries suggest



] that a whole-body dip in the sea was part of the initiation ritual...and

] it *has* been noted that "Christian" baptism started out as a

] fringe-Jewish thing (a special variant of the ritual cleansing of the

] mikveh?). Water-based purification ceremonies appear to be especially

] popular in hot climates, which stands to reason. :-)
Bathing in the Ganges river to purify oneself is a popular modern

Hindu (I think) custom.


Of course, Mongols were forbidden by the Yassa, the Law of Chingiss Kahn,

from polluting water sources, which prohibition included bathing in them.

--

Dennis O'Connor doconnor at sedona.intel.com



From: Judith L. Tabron

To: Mark Harris

Date: 12/28/93
Greetings to my lord Stefan,
Following is the bibliography in its current state -- I hope you find some use

for it, and let me know if it has been of use to anyone.


Raedwynn
Contemporaries of Marco Polo. Consisting of the Travel Records to the Eastern

Parts of the World of William of Rubruck [1253-1255]; the Journey of John of

Pian de Carpini [1245-1247]; the Journal of Friar Odoric [1318-1330] & the

Original Travels of Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela [1160-1173]. Manuel Komroff. New

York: Boni & Liveright, Inc., 1928.

Mission to Asia. C. Dawson. New York: n.p., 1966. Reprinted 1979.

The Book of Ser Marco Polo the Venetian concerning the kingdoms and marvels of

the East. H. Cordier. Trans. Sir Henry Yule and H. Cordier. London: n.p.,

1903.

The Mongol Mission. C. Dawson. London and New York: n.p., 1955.



The Monks of Kublai Khan, emperor of China. Trans. E. A. W. Budge. London:

n.p., 1928.

The Secret History of the Mongols. Trans. F. W. Cleaves. Cambridge, MA:

Harvard University Press, 1982.

Akner, Grigor of. "History of the Nation of the Archers (the Mongols) by

Grigor of Akanc" [sic.]. Trans. R. P. Blake and R. N. Frye. n.p.: HJAS, XII,

1949.

al-Din, Rashid. The successors of Genghis Khan. Trans. J. A. Boyle. London



and New York: n.p., 1971.

Battuta, Ibn. The travels of Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1325-1354. Trans. H. A. R.

Gibb. Cambridge: Hakluyt Society, 2nd ser., CX, CXVII, CXLI, 1958. Reprinted

1971.


Boyer, Martha. Mongol Jewellry: Researches on the Silver Jewellry collected by

the First and Second Danish Central Asian Expeditions under the leadership of

Henning Haslund-Christensen, 1936-37 and 1938-39. Kobenhavn: Gyldendalski

Boghandel, Nordisk Forlag, 1952.

Boyle, J. A. The Mongol World Empire. London: Variorum Reprints, Collected

Studies series, 1977.

Brooke, R. B. The Coming of the Friars. London: n.p., 1975.

Chambers, J. The Devil's Horsemen, 2nd ed. London: n.p., 1988.

Hansen, Henny Harald. Mongol Costumes: Researches on the Garments Collected by

the First and Second Danish Central Asian Expeditions under the leadership of

Henning Haslund-Christensen, 1936-37 and 1938-39. Kobenhavn: Gyldendalski

Boghandel, Nordisk Forlag, 1950. This is *the* source for descriptions and

even patterns of Mongol clothes, including hats, footwear, etc.

Haslund-Christensen, Henning. The Music of the Mongols: Eastern Mongolia. New

York: Da Capo Press, 1971. Has pictures of music instruments and sheet music.

Henthorn, W. Korea. The Mongol Invasions. Trans. G. Samuel. Leiden: n.p.,

1963.

Hessig, W. The Religions of Mongolia. Trans. G. Samuel. London: n.p., 1980.



Howorth, H. H. History of the Mongols from the 9th to the 19th Century.

London: n.p., 1876.

Juivaini, 'Ala-ad-Din 'Ata-Malik. The History of the World-Conquerer. Trans.

John Andrew Boyle, Ph.D. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1958.

Marshall, Robert. Storm from the East. Berkeley, Los Angeles: University of

California Press, 1993. This book accompanies the popular PBS series.


Morgan, David. O. The Mongols (The Peoples of Europe). Cambridge, MA & Oxford

U.K.: Blackwell, 1986.

Moule, A. C. Christians in China before the year 1550. Cambridge: n.p., 1930.

Moule, A. C. Christians in China before the year 1550. Oxford: n.p., 1986.

Moule, A. C. Quinsai, with other notes on Marco Polo. Cambridge: n.p., 1957.

Needham, J. Clerks and craftsmen in China and the West. Cambridge: n.p.,

1970.

Olschki, L. Guillaume Boucher, a French artist at the court of the Khans.



Baltimore: n.p., 1946.

Phillips, E. D. The Mongols. London: n.p., 1969.

Polo, Marco. Il milione (The Travels of Marco Polo). Trans. A. Ricci.

London: Broadway Travellers, 1931.

Polo, Marco. The Travels of Marco Polo. Trans. Ronald Latham. London:

Penguin Books, 1958.

Ratchnevsky, Paul. Genghis Khan: His Life and Legacy. Thomas Nivison Haining.

Trans. T. N. Haining. Oxford U.K. & Cambridge MA: Blackwell, 1991. Reprinted

1992.

Rubruck, William of. The Mission of Friar William of Rubruck: His Journey to



the court of the Great Khan Mongke 1253-1255. Trans. Peter Jackson. London:

The Hakluyt Society , 1990. This is GREAT fun to read, and *the* period source

for information on the Mongols.

Yule, Sir Henry. Cathay and the way thither. H. Cordier. London: Hakluyt

Society, 2nd ser. XXXIII, XXXVII, XXXVIII, XLI, 191316.

------------------------------------------------------------


This version: Dec. 27, 1993
Compiled by Etain macDhomnuill, Khanate Snow Leopard, of the household of the

Great Dark Horde.


With assistance from Raedwynn aet thaem Grenan Wuda, Dark Horde

and Giuliana del Fiore, Bergantal


------------------------------------------------------------
Please email additions or corrections to:

Internet: tabron at binah.cc.brandeis.edu

CompuServe: 75330,2000

From: dmvolmut at ukanaix.cc.UKans.EDU (David Volmut)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: mongoloid persona

Date: 13 Dec 1993 02:29:04 -0500
> I personally would like a

> bit more than just a few paragraphs of information. I think what bot h the

> requester and myself are looking for is what some of the more experienced and

> knowledgeble members of The Society consider to be reliable sources, rather

> than opinionated or sound bite versions.

>


> Your Servant,

>


> Grey.

>


I missed the initial question. If you are looking for books about Mongol

stuff here are a few good ones.


James Chambre _The Devil's Horsemen_

Peter Jackson _The Mission of Friar William of Rurbruck_ a good book for

those wanting detailed everyday life stuff.

DAvid Morgan _The Mongols_


Hope this helps,
Gilligan of Eire

From: corun at access3.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mongol stargazers

Date: 4 Mar 1994 17:03:09 -0500

Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA


Dennis O'Connor wrote:

>] >This talk of moon and earth and stars and sky seems the useless

>] >banter of softy, idle city folk. Better to spend the time tending

>] >the herds, or hunting, or others of the neccesary business of men.

>] >The gods have so made the heavens that men can know their way,

>] >and judge the coming of the seasons, by observing them. For this

>] >men should be grateful, and not in their arrogance presume to know

>] >how the gods provide this boon to them.

>] >

>] > Buri Dogshin, Mongol



>

>Those of our shamans who have true visions of the future tell us

>that in the years beyond our own, some of the People who Dwell

>in Felt Tents shall fall prey to the tempations of city men,

>and live in houses, and tend the herds no more. I would weep,

>but these seers also tell us that many of our people will not

>succumb, but will instead continue to live in ghers, and tend

>the herds, for at least another 600 winters, and I rejoice.


But can the Children of the Sky Blue Wolf deny the Tengri, Skyfather

to all Mongols? When one lives in the Gobi, one cannot ignore the sky.


>[BTW, Mongol fans : if you _ever_ have the chance to see

> "Close to Paradise", a film made in Mongolia, in Mongolian,


Actually it was called "Close to Eden" in English. The Mongolian title

is "Urga" which does not translate into the English title, but is the

name given to the lasso used by the Mongols to capture stray horses

or wives. Yes, this is a delightful film, and I have heard recently

that it is now available on video tape. There is a very good scene

depicting the traditional method of slaughtering a sheep for the meal

that is made for an honoured guest (in this case, a Russian truck driver

who nearly drives his truck into a river and is rescued by the mani

character).
Bayartai,

Corun (Celtic Mongol at large)

==============================================================================

Corun MacAnndra | Wait a minute! Those were the droids I was looking for!

Dark Horde by birth | Overheard in a bar in Mos

Moritu by choice | Isley Space Port, Tatooine

From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Morgans/koumiss

Date: 17 Mar 94 10:05:44


x_wolf at vicuna.emcmt.EDU writes:

] Dennis wrote

] |Attila was a Hun, not a Mongol.

]

] BZZZZZT! If you look carefully at the appropriate maps, lineages, and



] tribes, you will see that the Huns, Tartars, and all of their playmates

] originated in Mongolia.


If you delve into Mongolian history, you get the true story :

the area that is now modern-day Mongolia was NOT a country in the

time of Attila or in fact until Temujin made it one. Before Temujin,

there were many tribes in the are, all semi-nomadic, none controlling

any particular geographic area for more than short time. One of

these tribes were the Mongols.


Even the Mongol records of the time maintain the distinction :

Temujin (who became Ghengis Kahn) was a Mongol, but the people

he forged into a nation were not called Mongols : they are

referred to as "the people who dwell in felt tents". Mongol

at that time was still a term only used to refer to the tribe

that Temujin was from.


As to the "Tartars" : this name is a European invention, applied

to the armies of Temujin when they threatened Europe. It's roots are

(I believe) "Tartarus" : a reference to hell, which the armies of

the Kahn were said to be from. "Tartars" were not an actual

gorup of people : just a European fiction. Unfortuneately,

it seems to have persisted into this century.


] "Hun", etc.- is/was a more concise description, i.e. New Yorker

] vs. American.


No, that's not correct. In the time of Attila, and even in the

time of Temujin, a Hun was no more a Mongol than an Lakota

was an Iriquois. They were different tribes, with no unifying

government above them. The fact that the region they sprang

from is currently under a single government is not relevant.
In fact, if I remeber correctly, the reason the Huns invaded

Europe was because they were displaced from the Steppes by

the group of semi-nomadic tribes that included the Mongols ( who

were being dispalced from more eastern areas by the Chinese. )

This means that far from being a Mongol, Attila would have

been an enemy of the Mongols who stole his homeland. Now

my Hun history isn't as good as my Mongol, so corrections

are welcomed.


] You, milord are half-right, and I say this with all the

] confidence of a History Major working (slowly) towards a P.H.D.


I think you've strayed from your specialty to far. The steppes

of Asia ahve a very turbulant and fascinating history. Modern

data can lead to bad assumptions. For example, many people

think that since modern Mongol horses are small ponies, so

were the horses of Temujin's armies. This is not true : the size

of modern Mongol ponies is a result of post-Mongol-Empire

Chinese actions. The Chinese destroyed all the large Mongol

horses to reduce the threat the Mongols represented to China.

--

Dennis O'Connor doconnor at sedona.intel.com



From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mongols

Date: 25 May 94 13:15:49


jonesb at nevada.EDU (BRIAN JONES) writes:

] I am looking for good texts on Mongols. I am specifically interested in

] pictures of armor and clothing. I am also interested in the basic words

] of the language. I have two books and the Man-at-Arms edition any

] information will help. Thank you.

Good Mongol museum cataloges :


One of the best museum catalouges is "Die Mongolen".

Many detailed plates of Mongol artifacts, including

clothing and jewelry. However it's in German.
The LA County Natural History Museum recently had

an exhibition on Mongols : the catalouge from that

exhibit has some good Mongol artifacts in it, and

a some unique data on the precursers of the Mongols.

It's about $30 from the museum gift shop.
Pete Kucik
once recommended
Hansen, Henny Harald, MONGOL COSTUMES; RESEARCHES ON THE

GARMENTS COLLECTED BY THE FIRST AND SECOND DANISH CENTRAL

ASIAN EXPEDITIONS UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF HENNING

HASLUND-CHRISTENSEN, 1936-37 and 1938-39 (Kobenhavn:

Gyldendalski Boghandel, Nordisk Forlag, l950)
and

Boyer,Martha, MONGOL JEWELLERY: RESEARCHES ON THE SILVER

JEWELLERY COLLECTED BY THE FIRST AND SECOND DANISH

CENTRAL ASIAN EXPEDITIONS UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF HENNING

HASLUND-CHRISTENSEN, 1936-37 AND 1938-39 (Kobenhaven:

Gyldendalske Boghandel Nordisk Forlag, l952)


Additional stuff:
"The Mongols", from the Osprey Mean-at-Arms series,

by S.R. Turnbull. About $10 at military-history/

minatures shops. ISBN 0 85045 372 0. Lots of good pictures,

both modern ones and period illustrations, and good info

on the when, where, why, and how of the Mongol armies.
"The Devil's Horsemen : the Mongol Invasion of Europe",

by James Chambers, ISBN 0-689-10942-3. Focuses on the

interaction between the Mongols and their Christian

and Moslem neighbors to the west.


"The Devil's Horsemen" was a major source used to make

"Storm from the East", a four-hour documentary that was on

The Learning Channel. You can buy the tapes from The Learning

Channel, somehow : call 1-800-555-1212 and see if TLC has

a video sales 800 number.
The movie "Close to Eden", made in Mongolia, in Mongolian,

available with English subtitles, also touches on

Mongol traditional dress, as well as teaching lots

about modern and to a lesser extent period Mongolian

culture. It's also a very entertaining movie. I'm

looking for it on laserdisk.


All SCA Mongols should have a translation of "The

Secret History of the Mongols".


"Chinese Wispers" is an interesting look at some of

the Mongol's most famous actions. I like it, anyway.


Tower Records often has Mongolian music CDs in their

"International" section. The musicians often dress

in traditional costumes for the cover photos.
There is also a group called "The Mongolian Society". Some

book stores can tell you how to contact them. They have all

sorts of things, including learn-to-speak-Mongolian tapes.

But don't mention the SCA to them.

--

Dennis O'Connor doconnor at sedona.intel.com



From: locksley at indirect.com (Joe Bethancourt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Mongols

Date: 26 May 1994 07:45:06 GMT


One can log onto rec.culture.mongolia (I may have the exact name wrong here)

or contact the Chronicler of the Kingdom of Atenveldt, who has written

quite a nice little set of stuff on Mongol garb.

--

locksley at indirect.com PO Box 35190 Locksley Plot Systems



White Tree Productions Phoenix, AZ 85069 USA CyberMongol Ltd

From: HNHN15A at prodigy.com (Jana Russ)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mongolian Costume

Date: 7 Nov 1995 05:48:01 GMT
Another wonderful source for info on things Mongolian is:

the Mongolia Society

321-322 Goodbody Hall

Indiana University

Bloomington, IN 47405
From time to time they have Mongolian imports (including costumes--if you

are prepared to pay several hundred $). They also have an excellent

selection of books and back issues of their own scholarly journals on a

regular basis. One of the books I have purchased from Mongolia through

the Society is called _National Costumes of the Mongolian Peoples

Republic_, a collection of drawings of all the various Mongol tribes'

traditional del styles.
Membership in the Mongolia Society is $50.00/year and well worth it as

far as I am concerned.


Chai'usun

Dark Horde Moritu (among other things)

From: foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mongol Horsebreeds

Date: 8 Apr 1996 01:48:38 GMT

Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
I can't give you the number of hands the creatures ran, but the breed of

the Mongolian horse (a.k.a.) pony--is just that the Mongolian pony.


Check out a book called _In Search of Genghis Khan_ by Tim Severin (sp?).

This is the guy who recreated the Brendan voyage. He went to Mongolia

to try to get a Mongolia to Vienna expedition together. It failed but his

his trip gives a lot of details about Mongol ponies.


Audelindis de Rheims

From: dmoc at primenet.com (Dennis O'Connor)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mongol Horsebreeds

Date: 10 Apr 1996 01:30:01 -0700
foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox) wrote:

] I can't give you the number of hands the creatures ran, but the breed of

] the Mongolian horse (a.k.a.) pony--is just that the Mongolian pony.

]


] Check out a book called _In Search of Genghis Khan_ by Tim Severin (sp?).

] This is the guy who recreated the Brendan voyage. He went to Mongolia

] to try to get a Mongolia to Vienna expedition together. It failed but his

] his trip gives a lot of details about Mongol ponies.


I'm not sure when Mongols started using ponies. If memory serves,

Mongols originally rode full-size horses, but at some point in

history the Chinese decided that the Mongols were too dangerous on

full size horses, and slaughtered all the of them, leaving only

short horses, a.k.a. ponies. I believe this occurred well after

the Great Khans ( Chinghis through Kublai ) but would not bet the

rent on it.
My point, of course, is that in the SCA time period, Mongols

did not usually ride ponies, but rather rode magnificent horses.

---

Dennis O'Connor Not Speaking for Anyone Else.



dmoc at primenet.com Fear is the Enemy : TIP#518

From: Magorn

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mongol Horsebreeds

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 16:39:23 -0400

Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info at cais.com 703-448-4470


not entirely correct I'm afraid...Ponies are smaller, and tend to be more

surefooted and have greater endurances than regular horse breeds, and as

for strength, the single strongest horse breed in the world is generally

considered to be the Shetland Mine pony....Ponies are a more primitive

form of horse...and cannot run as fast as the well bred long-legged

variety, but should not in general be considered inferior horses. the

Mongols of the Steppes rode very fast horses, but the Mongols of the

mountains did in fact use ponies...

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: Heather McCann



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