Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page

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strength of five members here. Now, there are around

35 members in the group, with members keeping their

identity a secret.
One of the founding members of the Ahmedabad chapter

said their main goal was to help people get over alcohol

addiction and that they welcome people from all classes

and religions.

"We work on the simple principle of being honest to our

selves. All Alcoholics Anonymous members take a vow every

morning that they will not drink that day and try to

adhere to their promise," he added.

The members meet twice a week and share their experiences

and problems in countering alcoholism. Apart from Ahmedabad,

AA also has its chapters in Idar, Vadodara, Surat, Vapi

and Daman in Gujarat.

Those who are alcoholics and want to overcome the addiction

can contact Alcoholics Anonymous' helplines at 98981-05573,

93740-25501, 93746-14245.
++++Message 3720. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: When did first AA online

groups/meetings begin?

From: dhart1@tampabay.rr.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/21/2006 2:20:00 PM
Hi Ernie.
There's some good information on the OIAA site.

Look to the bottom under the link titled "AA in

Cyberspace - Now" by John P.


From the moderator, Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana):
OIAA is the Online Intergroup of Alcoholics Anonymous,

see http://aa-intergroup.org/

Excerpts from John P.'s excellent talk are given

below. For the transcript of his full talk, see

"AA in Cyberspace - Now"

by John P.

(presented June 30, 2000, transcribed from tape)
"I am kind of an old-timer on the Internet. In 1968 I

was working at the Rand Corporation, doing some research

for the Department of Defense. The guys down the hall

in Computer Sciences were sending computer output down

to the telephone exchange in Santa Monica and back and

comparing it with the data they sent across the room

.... Two years later, in 1970, we had coast-to-coast

hookup .... Today we have about 70 million computers

online, and that's a lot."
"We think the first contacts between AA members were

around 1986. There are more experts on that subject in

this room than anywhere else you could find, and some

may know an earlier date, but I think it was around

"By July of 1991, thanks to a couple of pioneers, they

started to have regular email meetings on Genie. That

was Lamplighters, the first group, which as Jim mentioned

has been the largest group as well as the oldest group,

followed closely by MOMS. How many Meeting of Minds

members do we have out here? (Hands show) It started in

Scotland and is almost as old as Lamplighters. It's been

meeting on the air 24 hours a day,seven days a week ever

since then, serving Alcoholics Anonymous members who

wanted to meet for one reason or another."

"Some of the meetings are Big Book Meetings, some are

step meetings, some discourage off topic discussion, some

discourage cross talk, some encourage cross talk, some

encourage thread discussion. You may have seen discussions

of such things as recovered versus recovering, or should

you use medications if you are an AA member; things like

that. Some of them have a full list of officers, GSR,

Intergroup Reps."

"For those who are not aware of it, the Online Intergroup

of AA formed after the last International Convention,

growing out of the Living Cyber Committee that put up the

Hospitality Room."

"There's a new online group that I really enjoy called

AA History Buffs.** It's just a terrific meeting that has

been covering a lot of AA history and I have learned a lot

of things that I didn't know."

[**From the moderator: That was the ancestor of the

AAHistoryLovers, founded in March 2000 by Nancy Olson,

see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aahistorybuffs/ for

the old messages. In March 2002, Nancy changed its name

to the AAHistoryLovers. Nancy died on March 25, 2005,

see her memorial at http://hindsfoot.org/nomem1.html for

an account of her fascinating life.]
"Let me give you some categories of people that can't

just go down to the church basement .... There are the

homebound, including those who are bed-ridden ... there

are those with mobility impairments who can't move

around very well and can't get to the meeting. There

are a lot of members who can't hear well. There's a

large number of members who are caregivers and can't

leave people in their care who are too young, too old

or too ill and the caregivers can't find a substitute

who can cover for them. There are shift workers, including

shift workers in places where there are only 1 or 2

meetings and those meet while they are working ....

There are remotely located people. Once on Lamplighters

... we had one at the North Pole and one at the South

Pole. Someone wisecracked that it was a bi-polar group."
"Sometimes I think the excessive anonymity that we have

in online AA is a problem because people are able to say

things online that they probably wouldn't say face to face.

That's a problem for us and it's working itself out over

time I think. So we still have some arguments and some

shootouts and some flames and some threads that you get

tired of, and things of that sort. But all in all, the

online AA experience is turning out to be a great way to

do AA. If there are problems, there are solutions."
++++Message 3721. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Harper 12 and 12

From: DudleyDobinson@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/21/2006 4:08:00 PM

I believe I have a partial answer to the questions posed. Regarding printing

dates there are Two upper case letters printed on the title pages of the

Harper publications. The first one relates to the month, "A" being

January. B

February etc. The second letter being the year, "A" being 1951

(The starting

letter in the period of these publications). One letter of the alphabet is

not used which I believe is "J" .

I have Two Harper printings of the 12 * 12 . The first one has the letters

D-C representing April 1953 and the other book has B-K for February 1960.

(Using the formula given above). I believe this is the Second printing. The


Comes of Age book I have has H-G which represents September 1957. I cannot


you how many were printed but I do know that only Two copies of the Second

printing of the 12*12 have come up on eBay in the last Five years. Copies of

the 12*12 are obviously much rarer than AA Comes of Age.

Do any of the members of this group know if there

are any more printings than those I have listed above?

In fellowship. Dudley D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3722. . . . . . . . . . . . book printing and dates

From: John Wikelius . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/22/2006 11:15:00 PM

I am seeking information on AA and AlAnon books to

include printings and dates. If anyone out there has

this information or knows someone who could help me

compile the remaining data I am assembling for a

pamphlet I would appreciate you contacting me at
nov85@graceba.net (nov85 at graceba.net)
Thanks and God bless.
John Wikelius

301 North Rawls Street

Enterprise, Alabama 36330
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3723. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How many alcoholics?

From: ny-aa@att.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/23/2006 9:57:00 PM

Here are some numbers that were in AA History Lovers last year:

Alcohol Abuse (but not Dependent)

1992 3.0% 5.6 Million

2002 4.7% 9.7 Million

Alcohol Dependent

1992 4.4% 8.2 Million

2002 3.8% 7.9 Million

Total Abuse or Dependent

1992 7.4% 13.8 Million

2002 8.5% 17.6 Million

They surveyed unincarcerated adult civilians in the United States

The analysis was based on definitions in DSM-IV by American

Psychiatric Association. Survey was conducted by US Census Bureau

in 1992 and was repeated as much the same as possible in 2002.

Read these posts and the related link for more information.
++++Message 3724. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Harper 12 and 12

From: John Wikelius . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/24/2006 1:51:00 PM

there is a third printing that was listed on ebay about ten years ago. The

ad showed the Harper cover and printing page. I do not recall the letters

displayed. I bid on it but did not have enough money to stay in the running

for the book. If I had known the significance of a third printing I would

have tried harder to get the item for my archive collection.

I believe Harper only printed one run of AA Comes of Age. Does anyone know

if this is true.
++++Message 3725. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: When did first AA online

groups/meetings begin?

From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/24/2006 7:38:00 PM
Thanks, Doug -- and to all who replied to my query, here or privately.

I think I already knew it, but you have again demonstrated that this is

really a great group with a lot of generous people! I am grateful to all

of you and especially to Glenn and Art who put so much loving effort

into it.
ernie kurtz
dhart1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:

> Hi Ernie.


> There's some good information on the OIAA site.

> Look to the bottom under the link titled "AA in

> Cyberspace - Now" by John P.


> Doug

++++Message 3726. . . . . . . . . . . . Big Book authors

From: Boston Bid . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/24/2006 7:26:00 PM

Is there already a list somewhere of all of the personal

stories and the names of their authors??? I have been

writing the names in my copy of ESH as I go along, but

it is a painstaking process.. and I suddenly realised that

I am sure that somewhere on this site will be a history

buff who already has this down on a Word of Excel document.

Is there anyone offering...?

George Smith, Boston (new to the group)

From the moderator:
One excellent place to find a lot of information of this

sort is the site for the West Baltimore Group of Alcoholics

Anonymous, which is maintained by Al W., and can be found at


There is a list of all the AA historical information

on this site (a general Table of Contents) at

The specific material you are asking for is found in the

"Biographies of the Authors of the Stories in the Big Book"

which is at http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/Authors.htm
These short biographies were written by Nancy Olson, who

founded our AAHistoryLovers web group, and served as its

moderator until her death.
There is also a list of names of people and details about

events in the Big Book, listed by page number, which is

located at http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/BB-Who-What.htm
Also, because people tend to forget, if you

go to the AAHistoryLovers Message Board at


there is a little box at the top where you can search

our past messages for a particular name or word. This

is not a perfect search engine -- it will not find every

instance -- but it is a good idea to do a search here before

sending a question in. A lot of the time, it will turn out

that the answer was already posted at some point in the past.
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
++++Message 3727. . . . . . . . . . . . Counting Members 1993 vs 2006

From: mbrandfssr . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/25/2006 8:26:00 AM

I saw this on AA History Buffs
"GSO changed the way membership counts were calculated after

Can anyone offer insight into the change? I was at an AA function

last month where a guy made slight reference to this and claimed our

membership is probably more like 600,000-700,000 in the US

++++Message 3728. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book authors

From: james.bliss@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/26/2006 2:49:00 PM

From James Bliss and Mike Brewer: two other online sources.

From: james.bliss@comcast.net

(james.bliss at comcast.net)
In addition to what the moderator provided, there is a list at:


From: Mike Brewer

(tuswecaoyate at yahoo.com)


will answer your question quite thoroughly.

++++Message 3729. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book authors

From: jakewaddell@juno.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/26/2006 3:23:00 PM

I have created a version to index the stories in the

various BB editions.

It is an Excel spreadsheet which requires a version of

Excel "new" enough to support multiple worksheets.

For those whose computers cannot open this, I can also

send people a stripped down version (only one worksheet).

The "actual" list is on the Master worksheet; all other

sheets are formulae that read from Master......

If anyone is interested, I've also got a MS Word document

that contains brief biographies of most of the authors --

all the text is on the HistoryLovers site -- I've just

consolidated it.

If any would like a copy, please contact me directly at:
jakewaddell@juno.com (jakewaddell at juno.com)
(Please do not send your request to the AAHistoryLovers

address, because it does not have a "forwarding" button.)

++++Message 3730. . . . . . . . . . . . "Spiritual kindergarten" passage

From: Mike . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/26/2006 8:07:00 PM

On page 95 of "As Bill Sees It," Bill W. talks of

us "operating a spiritual kindergarten."

The note at the bottom says that this came from a

letter which he wrote in 1954.

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the whole

letter from which this short excertp has been taken?

thank you
Mike Cullen
++++Message 3731. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: When did first AA online

groups/meetings begin?

From: Charles Grotts . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/27/2006 12:04:00 AM
As mentioned in Message 3720, the first group was

the Lamplighters in 1991.

An article on "The History of the Lamplighters Group

of Alcoholics Anonymous" can be found at:

++++Message 3732. . . . . . . . . . . . texas prayer

From: Cheryl F . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/27/2006 5:17:00 AM

From message # 590:
"Larry J. of Houston, wrote 'The Texas Prayer,'

used to open AA meetings in Texas. He is also said

to have written the 'Texas Preamble.'"
Does anyone know what this prayer says or where

I can find a copy?

Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3733. . . . . . . . . . . . The mile long list

From: Teemu . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/27/2006 8:55:00 AM

In the 12x12 Bill W. wrote:
"A member gives us a vivid glimpse of those days.

"At one time," he says, "every A.A. group had many

membership rules. Everybody was scared witless that

something or somebody would capsize the boat and

dump us all back into the drink. Our Foundation

office asked each group to send in its list of

'protective' regulations. The total list was a

mile long. If all those rules had been in effect

everywhere, nobody could have possibly joined A.A. at

all, so great was the sum of our anxiety and fear."

Does anyone have this list of `protective' regulations?

Or is it on the Internet (a link) or can anyone send

it to me privately?
Thank you in advance.
Have a great day.
Teemu Valmari

Jyvaskyla, Finland

++++Message 3734. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Spiritual kindergarten" passage

From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/28/2006 12:57:00 AM

The kindergarten theme is something Bill used in

different pieces of correspondence. In a letter to

Clarence Snyder dated November 9, 1955 Bill wrote

"After all, A.A. is a sort of kindergarten - It's

something we go through to a better way of life and

wider usefullness."

--- Mike wrote:
> On page 95 of "As Bill Sees It," Bill W. talks of

> us "operating a spiritual kindergarten."


> The note at the bottom says that this came from a

> letter which he wrote in 1954.


> Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the

> whole

> letter from which this short excertp has been taken?


> thank you


> Mike Cullen







++++Message 3735. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Spiritual kindergarten" passage

From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/27/2006 9:22:00 PM

From Shakey Mike and George Cleveland.
The original question was from Mike Cullen

(mcullen at shaw.ca):
On page 95 of "As Bill Sees It," Bill W. talks of us

"operating a spiritual kindergarten." The note at the

bottom says that this came from a letter which he wrote

in 1954.
Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the whole

letter from which this short excertp has been taken?
thank you

Mike Cullen

From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com)
I think I would try GSO Archives in NY.

Shakey Mike

From: george cleveland

(pauguspass at yahoo.com)

The Spiritual Kindergarten concept comes up beautifully

in a Grapevine essay that Bill wrote in the June 1958

issue. This essay, along with the January '58 piece on

Emotional Sobriety, continue to have tremendous resonance

for me.
Both essays are in Language of the Heart and online

from The Grapevine.

Through lack of disciplined attention and sometimes

through lack of the right kind of faith, many of us

keep ourselves year after year in the rather easy

spiritual kindergarten I've just described.

George Cleveland
++++Message 3736. . . . . . . . . . . . Richmond Walker

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/29/2006 8:36:00 PM

I have come across a 24 Hours a Day volume that lists Richmond Walker as

author in two places. I understood that he did not want to be listed hence

the statement in most of the volumes have "Compiled by a member of the

Group at Daytona Beach, Fla." usually at the very end of the book.

This volume has "Richmond Walker" on the title page and


note: This book was compiled by Richmond Walker (1892-1965) of the Group

at Daytona Beach, Florida." on the copyright page. No publishing date


Since Walker appeared to not want his name in the book, I am wondering if

any list member has information on why Hazelden felt the need to put it in

Tommy in Baton Rouge

++++Message 3737. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Spiritual kindergarten" passage

From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/28/2006 5:55:00 AM

Mitchell K. wrote:
The kindergarten theme is something Bill used in

different pieces of correspondence. In a letter to

Clarence Snyder dated November 9, 1955 Bill wrote

"After all, A.A. is a sort of kindergarten - It's

something we go through to a better way of life and

wider usefullness."

(mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com)

One of the interesting things about Wilson's writing

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