Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page



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http://forums.abebooks.com/
They also have a bulletin board called book sleuth

that has readers from around the world.



http://forums.abebooks.com/abesleuthcom


Maybe that will help. I wish you great success in

your quest!!


Marsha

______________________________________


Message #3542 from "newnanight1963"

(tandie02 at gmail.com)
Oops this may be a repeat , sorry.

I am new to this group and looking for some information.

I am looking for a book, an autobiography that my stepdad wrote

regarding his 40 years as a skid row wino.

Title: One's Too Many and a Thousand's Not Enough

Author: Frank Wallaston

Year : 1979

Publisher (this may be a vanity publisher not sure) Libra


I have managed to find this book in two libraries in Butte County

California but can;t seem to be able to find a copy I can buy. I am

newly sober (2 months) and know Franks book would add to my incentive

in my new journey.


Unfortunately Frank died (drunk and alone after 20 years sober) a

couple years ago and I lost my copy of the book years ago ... if anyone can

help

I would be forever grateful.


Thanks

Tanya
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++++Message 3558. . . . . . . . . . . . Significant July Dates in A.A.

History


From: chesbayman56 . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/8/2006 11:31:00 PM
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Sorry To all for being late with this Monthly Post....

July 1939 - Warren C. joined A.A. Cleveland, caused debate because

he was not hospitalized.

July 1944 - Bob writes article for Grapevine "On Cultivating

Tolerance".

July 1962 - 'Victor E' cartoon first appeared in Grapevine. (somes

say May 1962).

July 1-3, 1960 - 25th Anniversary of AA in Long Beach, CA.

July 2-3, 1955 - 20th Anniversary Convention at St. Louis, MO. The

Three Legacies, of Recovery, Unity, and Service, turned over to the

movement by the old timers. AA comes of Age.

July 2, 1960 - Father Ed Dowling dies.

July 2, 1965 - "Best of Bill" and Pocket-Sized "12 and

12" 1st sold.

July 2, 1965 - 1st "La Vigne", Canadian Grapevine, published.

July 2-4, 1965 - 30th Anniversary of AA in Toronto. Adopted "I Am

Responsible."

July 2, 1993 - 50 years of AA celebrated in Canada.

July 2, 2000 - 20 millionth copy of Big Book given to Al-Anon in

Minneapolis, MN.

July 3-5, 1970 - 35th Anniversary of AA in Miami. "Declaration of

Unity". Bill's last public appearance.

July 3-6, 1980 - 45th Anniversary of AA in New Orleans. First true

marathon meeting was held.

July 3-6, 1980 - Gay AA's have own program at 40th AA Anniversary in

New Orleans.

July 4, 1939 - 1st AA meeting started in Flatbush, NY.

July 4-6, 1975 - 40th Anniversary of AA in Denver. Worlds largest

coffee server serves 1/2 million cups a day.

July 5-7, 1985 - 50th AA Anniversary in Montreal, Canada. Ruth Hock

given 5,000,000th Big Book. House of Seagrams flew their flags at

half mast for 3 days.

July 5-8, 1990 - 55th AA Anniversary in Seattle, WA. Nell Wing given

10,000,000th Big Book.

July 7, 1940 - Bill attends 1st Summer Session at School of Alcohol

Studies at Yale University.

July 8, 1940 - 1st AA Group formed in Dayton, Ohio.

July 10, 1941 - Texas newspaper publishes anonymous letter from

founding member of Texas AA Group. (Larry J)

July 11, 1960 - Time published article called "Passionately

Anonymous" on the 25th Convention.

July 14, 1939 - Dr Tiebout gives Big Book to Marty M. who promptly

throws it back at him.

July 15 1938 - 1st documented use name Alcoholics Anonymous, A.A.

archives letter Bill to Willard Richardson.

July 16, 1965 - Frank Amos, AA Non-Alcoholic Trustee, dies.

July 18 1938 - in letter to Dr. Richards at Johns Hopkins, Bill used

Alcoholics Anonymous as working title for Big Book and name for the

fellowship.

July 20, 1941 - First AA group formed in Seattle, Washington.

July 22, 1877 - Willian Duncan Silkworth born in Brooklyn, NY.

July 22, 1980 - Marty M. early AA woman and founder of NCADD dies.

July 23, 1940 - Philly AA's send 10% of kitty to Alcoholic

Foundation, sets precedent.

July 23, 1943 - New Haven CT Register reports arrival of AA's to

study with E M Jellinek.

July 24, 1943 - L.A. press reports formation of all-Mexican AA Group.

July 28-30, 1950 - First AA International Convention held in

Cleveland, Ohio. Twelve Traditions adopted. Dr. Bob made last

appearance at large AA gathering.

July 31, 1972 - Rollie H dies sober in Washington DC.
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++++Message 3559. . . . . . . . . . . . Joe and Charlie Big Book studies on

DVD?


From: dobbo101 . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/9/2006 6:13:00 PM
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Can anyone out there help me find where I can get

the Joe and Charlie Big Book studies on DVD?


I'm told one of them is no longer with us, so any

or either will do.


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++++Message 3560. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Gnostics and agnostics

From: Bob Wilson . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/8/2006 5:59:00 PM


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The gnos- root is just the Indo-european root for "to know."

Cognate with

English know and Russian znat' etc... So "agnostic" just means

"not known."

The Gnostics have their name from the same Greek root but one doesn't derive

from the other.


Bob Wilson
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++++Message 3561. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Inacuracies in the Lois Wilson

Book


From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/11/2006 3:11:00 AM
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Dear Les,
Re: "Hello AA History Lover Readers.... Please note

that the Bourchert book noted below, "The Lois Wilson

Story, When Love Is Not Enough" contains several

factual errors."


Thank you for your service. One correction though.
Page 196 top: "John Henry Fitzhugh Murphy from

Cumberstone(emphasis added), Maryland..."


The name should be John Henry Fitzhugh Mayo and he

is from a town called Cumberstone, Md.


Sally M.. who is Jimmy Burwell's niece, remembers

Bill and Lois visiting Fitz and Elizabeth Mayo. They

lived on her fathers property in a cinderblock

house. Fitz was her father's best friend. Elizabeth

was ill and Lois would visit and take care of her. One

such visit was while Bill was writing the "Big Book."

He did not write the book there, but may have written

notes on the book.


I recently visited the area and gave a 1-1/2 hour

presentation (re Jimmy and Fitz) at Christ Episcopal

Church in Owensville, Maryland, where Jimmy B. and

Fitz M. are buried. Fitz's father was at one time

the pastor of the church.
The local district had an Archives presentation and

about 200 people attended. (District 6, Area 29, on

Saturday 5/13/06 in Owensville,Md.) It was a swell

affair and the AA members there treated us all just

like family.
Al W. of the Maryland Archives spoke on "The history

of Maryland A.A. and Web Research." His site is the

West Baltimore group:
http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/HistoryPage.htm

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/Info.htm

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/Authors.htm


Yours in Service,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz


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++++Message 3562. . . . . . . . . . . . "Little Red Riding Hoods" in early

AA meetings?

From: archie . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/10/2006 11:53:00 PM
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Looking for an explanation of the term "Red Riding

Hoods" as used in the text below. It came from the

book "Slaying the Dragon" by William L. White on

page 135, paragraph 1, lines 20 to 28.


There were also tensions regarding the proper relationship

between A.A. and the informal club houses that were

springing up around the organization. An early report

on an A.A. Clubhouse in San Francisco made note of the strain

from "over-crowding at meetings" and the problem of "drunks,

panhandlers, wolves, and Red Riding Hoods upsetting the

meetings." All of these situations reflected A.A.'s growing

pains.
Thank you very much for any information you offer.


A.S.A.P.

Always Say A Prayer


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++++Message 3563. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Gnostics and agnostics

From: Arkie Koehl . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/11/2006 4:44:00 PM


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I gnew that all along :-)
Arkie
On Jul 8, 2006, at 11:59, Bob Wilson wrote:
> The gnos- root is just the Indo-european root for "to know."

> Cognate with English know and Russian znat' etc... So

"agnostic"

> just means "not known." The Gnostics have their name from the

same

> Greek root but one doesn't derive from the other.



>

> Bob Wilson


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++++Message 3564. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Significant July Dates in A.A.

History


From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/11/2006 4:07:00 PM
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At 22:31 7/8/2006 , chesbayman56 wrote:
>July 1962 - 'Victor E' cartoon first appeared in Grapevine. (somes say

May


1962).<
I did a search on A.A. Grapevine's digital archives for "1962 Victor

E" and


the first cartoon shown was the September issue, Volume 19, Issue 4.
There were also cartoons for the October, November, and December issues

from 1962. A search for "Victor E" without a date yields as the

September

1962 issue as first cartoon of Victor.


These archives are a wonderful source. There is a charge but it is minimal

compared to the value of what you are able to access.


YMMV,
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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++++Message 3565. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Significant July Dates in A.A.

History


From: ckbudnick . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2006 12:55:00 PM
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Regarding July 7, 1940 - Bill attends 1st Summer Session at School

of Alcohol.


According to information I found, the Summer School of Alcohol

Studies was first held in 1943.


http://alcoholstudies.rutgers.edu/education/sadsinfo.html
"The School of Alcohol and Drug Studies was founded at Yale

University in 1943 as the Summer School of Alcohol Studies and moved

to Rutgers University in 1962. E.M. Jellinek, Sc.D., was the

school's first director. Howard W. Haggard wrote that the school was

undertaken "as an experiment in social education" to make the

findings of scientific research applicable to the actual problems of

alcohol in the community. The first school had as its main courses

of study physiological aspects, alcohol and traffic, personality and

constitution, statistics, social measures, legislative control,

prevention of alcoholism and treatment of alcoholism. The 2004

School of Alcohol and Drug Studies will be the sixty-first annual

session. The director of the school is Gail Gleason Milgram, Ed.D."


--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "chesbayman56"

wrote:

>

> July 7, 1940 - Bill attends 1st Summer Session at School of



Alcohol Studies at Yale University.
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++++Message 3566. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Joe and Charlie Big Book studies

on DVD?


From: George B . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2006 12:32:00 AM
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dobbo101@yahoo.com (dobbo101 at yahoo.com) wrote:
"Can anyone out there help me find where I can get

the Joe and Charlie Big Book studies on DVD?

I'm told one of them is no longer with us, so any

or either will do."


They can be downloaded here:

http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=fileandid=150


This is not with Joe McQ.
Charlie and Joe will be in Chicago this weekend. July 14th thru 16th.

______________________________


From: Jim Burns

(khanti1008 at yahoo.com)


Joe and Charlie are still doing " The Big Book Comes Alive."
Joe number #1 no longer participates due to health reasons.

Joe #2 has been an awesome replacement for 10 years. My group

is going to a " Big Book Comes Alive" Sept 9th and Sept 10

in Indio, California.


Write me off-list at guitarstring1008@yahoo.com

(guitarstring1008 at yahoo.com)

and I will send you a flyer.
In service,

Jim


California
______________________________
From:

(kilroy at ceoexpress.com)


Here is a web site where you can listen to the entire Big Book

Study, and much more. They really help to get me up and running

in the beginning. I hope they do the same for you.
http://www.ppgaadallas.org/aa_speakers.htm
Kilroy W.

4021 Club

Philadelphia PA

______________________________


From: >

(rfuhrman1011 at comcast.net)


Joe and Charlie are both living. In fact in the next month

or so they will be doing a Big Book study in LA.


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++++Message 3567. . . . . . . . . . . . Chapter called "The Lone Endeavor"

in 1st Ed.1st Printing

From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/11/2006 12:33:00 PM
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I was getting some information together to send to Mel B. who should be

arriving home from Europe today, and came across some information that Harry

the

Wino(my sponsor) sent to me from his archives. It is a list of AA members



sober between June 1935 to February 1939 in Akron and New York. This

particular

list was highlighted with comments from Sybil Corwin and states" Ruth

Hock


wrote(the) chapter callrd The lone Endeavor in first edition! Just before

book


went to print based on phone calls and letters from Pat from Los Angeles.

She


told us so on her last trip to Los Angeles in recent years." THIS IS

SIGNIFICANT.This credits a non-alcoholic as writing a chapter in the Big

Book.

On the back of the list Sybil also writes" Footnote:Aug 16,1984



Pat Cooper landed drunk in Los Angeles April 19,1941-and my brother Tex

Adams and I called on him at Johnny Millers sanitarium on or near Alvarado

and

Olympic Blvd. He did not stay sober. (signed)Sybil Corwin.



The chapter was removed from the 2nd printing I believe.

This signed and dated notation by Sybil identifies Ruth Hock as a writer

in the 1st Big Book. Tex Adams started the 2nd AA group in LA, Ca. called

"the Hole in The Wall Group"

I'm on the East coast, and am not familiar with the Johnny Miller

Sanitarium-Any Info?


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++++Message 3568. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Little Red Riding Hoods" in

early AA meetings?

From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2006 8:58:00 AM
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--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,

"archie" wrote:

>

> Looking for an explanation of the term "Red Riding



> Hoods" as used in the text below. It came from the

> book "Slaying the Dragon" by William L. White on

> page 135, paragraph 1, lines 20 to 28.

>

> There were also tensions regarding the proper relationship



> between A.A. and the informal club houses that were

> springing up around the organization. An early report

> on an A.A. Clubhouse in San Francisco made note of the strain

> from "over-crowding at meetings" and the problem of

"drunks,

> panhandlers, wolves, and Red Riding Hoods upsetting the

> meetings." All of these situations reflected A.A.'s growing

> pains.


>
It might be a reference to women whose vulnerability

is a little more calcuated than genuine.


I have a vague recollection of someone who looks at

children's stories through a psychoanalytic lens

remarking on the oddity of the setup in Red Riding Hood.

Who would send a lone, small child into wolf-infested

woods? Either her mother exposed her to danger

deliberately, or RRH is not as innocent as she

appears.
Cora

_________________________________


Note from Glenn C. (moderator): Cora, this was Eric

Berne, in his book "What Do You Say After You Say Hello?"

It's a brilliant book. He argues that fairy tales and

other childhood literary motifs often offer good

metaphors for describing the psychological games that

adults play, and the "life scripts" (an idea that he

developed) which shape the course of our lives.
E.g., some people use a disability to play "Little Lame

Prince" all their lives, taking a real disability which

they have, but using it as a phony excuse for avoiding

responsibility in all sorts of other areas where it is

not relevant. Alcoholics sometimes play this game

with their alcoholism.


In parts of this book, and also in parts of Berne's "Games

People Play," he describes women who play "vulnerable"

and "helpless," as you describe, while simultaneously

pretending to show sexual availability in a flirtatious

manner, in order to manipulate men into doing the things

they want.


In the context of Bill W.'s remarks, I suspect that a

"Little Red Riding Hood" was a woman who came into AA

meetings talking about all the "big bad wolves" who

had abused her, and batting her eyelashes at one of the

men in the meeting, in an attempt to convince him that

he was "a bold woodsman" who would step in and play hero

and "save her" from all the big bad wolves.
There are sufficient male alcoholics who are dumb

enough to fall for that con game, to enable a Little

Red Riding Hood to get into numerous sick relationships

within AA.


It was Eric Berne, as far as I can tell, who basically

developed the idea of "rescuing" and "enabling" behavior

as a kind of psychological con game which some people

play, and he pointed out that alcoholics in particular

are experts at playing that particular psychological

con game.


So a "Little Red Riding Hood" is a woman who is looking

for a man who will play Rescuer and Enabler, in the way

in which Bill W. seems to have been using the metaphor.
The idea of "codependent behavior" was a development

based on Berne's original ideas about Persecutor-Victim-Rescuer

con games, which came along a decade or so later. I think

Berne's original language is much more precise and much

more useful than the somewhat amorphous concept of

codependency, which attempts to include far too many

different kinds of psychological game playing. But

that's just me.


Tom P. (below) talks about the flip side of the Little

Red Riding Hood game, namely men who try to chat up

women newcomers to AA, and convince them that they are

the big bold heroic woodsmen who will "protect" them

from the wolves and "carry their basket of goodies for

them."


_________________________________
From: "Tom P."

(tomper99@yahoo.com)


Archie:
From message 50 on this site and a tape of Bill W. talk in Chicago

in 1951:
"There were people, believe it or not whose morals were bad and the

respectable alcoholics of that time shook their heads and

said, "Surely these immoral people are going to render us

asunder."

Little Red Riding Hood and the bad wolves began to abound. Ah, yes,

could our society last?"
Seems Bill W. was talking about the fear generated in some that

others would cause the end of AA.


I like James Thurber's rendition of "Little Red Riding

Hood" where she recognizes the Big Bad Wolf in Grandma's

bed and takes her automatic out of her basket and shoots

him dead. Moral of the story: "It is not so easy to fool

little girls nowadays as it used to be."
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++++Message 3569. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: Inacuracies in the Lois

Wilson Book

From: kilroy@ceoexpress.com> . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2006 12:21:00 AM
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Good looking out. But speaking of inaccuracies, if I'm not mistaken and I

don't


think I am, Sally M. is the sister of Fitz M. not Jimmy B. I went to that

workshop at the church about 6 or 7 years ago and she told the story.


Kilroy W.

4021 Club

Philadelphia PA
--- Shakey1aa@aol.com wrote:
From: Shakey1aa@aol.com

To: elsietwo@msn.com

Cc: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Inacuracies in the Lois Wilson Book

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:11:57 EDT
Dear Les,
Re: "Hello AA History Lover Readers.... Please note

that the Bourchert book noted below, "The Lois Wilson

Story, When Love Is Not Enough" contains several

factual errors."


Thank you for your service. One correction though.
Page 196 top: "John Henry Fitzhugh Murphy from

Cumberstone(emphasis added), Maryland..."


The name should be John Henry Fitzhugh Mayo and he

is from a town called Cumberstone, Md.


Sally M.. who is Jimmy Burwell's niece, remembers

Bill and Lois visiting Fitz and Elizabeth Mayo. They

lived on her fathers property in a cinderblock

house. Fitz was her father's best friend. Elizabeth

was ill and Lois would visit and take care of her. One

such visit was while Bill was writing the "Big Book."

He did not write the book there, but may have written

notes on the book.


I recently visited the area and gave a 1-1/2 hour

presentation (re Jimmy and Fitz) at Christ Episcopal

Church in Owensville, Maryland, where Jimmy B. and

Fitz M. are buried. Fitz's father was at one time

the pastor of the church.
The local district had an Archives presentation and

about 200 people attended. (District 6, Area 29, on

Saturday 5/13/06 in Owensville,Md.) It was a swell

affair and the AA members there treated us all just

like family.
Al W. of the Maryland Archives spoke on "The history

of Maryland A.A. and Web Research." His site is the

West Baltimore group:
http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/HistoryPage.htm

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/Info.htm

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/Authors.htm


Yours in Service,

Shakey Mike Gwirtz


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
_____________________________________________________________

A Member of CEOExpressSelect - www.ceoexpress.com


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++++Message 3570. . . . . . . . . . . . Canada AA

From: Paul . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2006 5:46:00 AM


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July 2, 1993 - 50 years of AA celebrated in Canada.
July 2-4, 1965 - 30th Anniversary of AA in Toronto. Adopted "I Am

Responsible."


July 5-7, 1985 - 50th AA Anniversary in Montreal, Canada.
Using the dates from this wonderful group I thought that Canada and the

USA used the same starting dates for AA. Now I see that they

celebrated 50 years of AA in 1993 making their AA date 1943. Now if

this is the case then why do we have AA anniversaries in Canada

celebrating 1935?
Thanks Paul
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++++Message 3571. . . . . . . . . . . . CROSS-TALK

From: lynnaw1979 . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/13/2006 10:11:00 PM


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Looking for information on cross-talk within the AA meeting context.

How did we come up with it? When? How? Thanks


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++++Message 3572. . . . . . . . . . . . 90 meetings in 90 days

From: anders bystrom . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2006 10:03:00 AM


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Hiya group!
The saying "90 meetings in 90 days" is pretty common

in AA in Sweden. I recall that i once heard on a

speaker tape that this saying was "invented"

Cleaveland AA in the 50’s where they had some sort of

"contract" with the Salvation army, that if they took

drunks to 90 meetings the Salvation army would let the

person stay at the shelter for 90 days.
Does anyone have any info around this?
Love

Anders
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++++Message 3573. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Ebby, Court and Judge Graves

From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/13/2006 7:41:00 AM


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Hi Chris,
Thanks for your email to the group about Judge Graves.

Yes, he was the same judge who released Ebby to Rowland.

Apparently Cebra and his father (the judge) had a stormy

relationship at times, but it does appear that Judge

Graves wanted to help alcoholics and did give Ebby a

break. Cebra eventually moved to France.


Mel
FROM Mel Barger at melb@accesstoledo.com

(melb at accesstoledo.com)


----- Original Message -----

From: "ckbudnick"

To:

Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:39 PM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Ebby, Court and Judge Graves
>I have a question, largely based upon reading Ebby: The Man Who

> Sponsored Bill W. by Mel B. The book indicates that Ebby appeared

> before Cebra's father, Judge Graves, and was told that he "was due

> back in Bennington for trial Monday morning" (p. 57). Was Judge

> Graves the same judge on Monday who "gave Ebby a lecture" and

then


> released him to Rowland? I've searched through previous posts and

> haven't found an answer to this question.

>

> Chris


> Raleigh, NC
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++++Message 3574. . . . . . . . . . . . Searcy W. on the Rewards of Recovery

From: robin_foote . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2006 11:16:00 PM


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Hi AA history lovers,
I recently heard the following on a track recorded by Searcy W. I have heard

various forms of this over the years and find it follows on from the

'promises'.
I have seen something similar in the Big Book but cannot find it.
Was Searcy the originator or is it from another source? Anyone know?
THE TWELVE REWARDS OF SOBRIETY
By Searcy W., 55 years sober as at 2001 aged 90.
o Faith instead of despair.
o Courage instead of fear.
o Hope instead of desperation.
o Peace of mind instead of confusion.
o Real friendships instead of loneliness.
o Self-respect instead of self-contempt.
o Self-confidence instead of helplessness.
o A clean conscious instead of a sense of guilt.
o The respect of others instead of their pity and contempt.
o A clean pattern of living instead of a hopeless existence.
o The love and understanding of our families instead of their doubts and

fears.
o The freedom of a happy life instead of the bondage of an alcoholic

obsession.
A great source of AA tracks in MP3 format is at http://www.xa-speakers.org/

located in Iceland with over 800 tracks including AA Founders. Perfect for

my iPod.
Robin F.
Caloundra, Australia.
Page 55 of the Big Book awoke my spirit.
www.BriefTSF.com




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