Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page



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Finally, at the Cleveland Convention, July 29, 1950, the membership of AA,

through


our elected delegates, officially accepted the Traditions [in the Short

Form].


[PIO

pg 338]
So you see, the Long Form was published first ... but the Short Form was

accepted

first.
And as far as I know, the membership has never specifically voted to accept

the

Long


Form of the Traditions. We HAVE voted and accepted them, as package deals in

accepting the revisions of old publication, and newer publications that have

come out

which included them. But, curiously, never 'just on their own merit'.


Never seen any indication of GSO or the Conference EVER trying to place one

form


in

precedence over the other. I have seen some business meetings where

individual

members, trying to argue against a different point of view, have strongly

stated

that


the version [long or short] they insisted supported their view was superior

to

the



version the opposition used.
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++++Message 3454. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Which takes precedence, Long or

Short Traditions?

From: Danny S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/28/2006 10:14:00 PM
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We have a short form and a long form of our Traditions. In AA or out

of AA, the short version of ANYTHING is NEVER meant to be an

amendment, revision or clarification of the original.
It is simply an condensed version of the original, hopefully conveying

the same intent and spirit. If any clarification is ever needed of a

short form version, we go to its LONG FORM parent to discover it.
Peace,
Danny S
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "yankee1gb"

wrote:

>

> The long form of the traditions were published/adopted first and each



> provides a more detailed or precise statement than its short form

> counterpart. The Short form traditions were, however,

> published/adopted more recently in time and are about the only form

> commonly mentioned.

>

> Does either form take precedent over the other?



>
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++++Message 3456. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: stepping stones

From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/27/2006 4:12:00 PM


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Hi all--
...seems to me that I remember reading somewhere that members chipped

in and helped Bill and Lois pay a small stipend every month to keep their

stuff in storage while they were "wandering around" before the

move to


SS.
-cm
On Monday, May 22, 2006, at 02:44 PM, and25g wrote:
> I just came back from the visit to Stepping Stones. I was told

> by the person who met me there (his name is Ken B) that Bill and

> Louis had their furniture in storage after they lost their

> Clinton st. house and it was moved to the Stepping Stones.

>

> They do claim that the kitchen table is the original table where



> Ebby and Bill met.

>

> It looks like Ken B. spends much time at the Stepping Stones and is



> happy to answer any questions visitors have. I have his e-mail and

> will invite him to join the group.

>

> Thank you,



> Andrey

> MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IS

> (and25g at yahoo.com)

>

>



> --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitchell K."

> wrote:

> >

> >


> > Just a couple of points....

> >


> > When I visited with Lois about 3 months before she

> > passed on there were no glasses in the kitchen just as

> > there were no glasses in the kitchen when I visited

> > there soon after she passed on.

> >

> > Maybe I'm losing my memory (I do know my short-term is



> > severely damaged) but can someone refresh it about

> > Bill and Marty starting what was to become the National

> > Council in the livingroom

> >


> > As far as "THE" table.... it has been reported that

> > there are a few "THE" tables where Bill and Ebby met.

> >

> > As far as the desk in the study on the hill being



> > "THE" desk where the Big Book was written... I've sat

> > at that desk many a time and it wouldn't fit in the

> > office in the Newark office and I someone will have to

> > fill me in if BandL stored the Clinton St. furniture or

> > took it with them on all their moves.

> >


> > Another thing.... it cannot be classified as "It is

> > the most important collection of AA artifacts

> > > and history anywhere."

> >


> > I'm tickled pink that you enjoyed yourself so much at

> > Stepping Stones. I wish more members of the Fellowship

> > would have your interest in our history. However... we

> > must temper historical fact with legend. Hey, I may be

> > totally off base...

> >


> >

> >


> > > I just got back from a visit to Stepping Stones in

> > > Bedford Falls NY (just above NYC) where Bill and

> > > Lois lived from 1941 on.

> > > It is well worth a visit from anyone even slightly

> > > interested in AA history.

> > >


> > > They have done a marvelous job of keeping it in

> > > exactly the same condition it was when Bill and lois

> > > lived there (Lois' glasses are where she left them

> > > in the kitchen).

> > >

> > > What a treasure trove of history!



> > >

> > > You can sit at the kitchen table that Ebby and Bill

> > > sat at in Clinton street when Bill pushed a drink

> > > over to him and Ebby announced " I got religion".

> > > You can stand in the living room where Marty Mann

> > > and Bill formed Council that would become the

> > > National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence .

> > > You can sit at the desk where Bill wrote the Big

> > > Book and the 12 and 12.

> > > You can see the map filled with stick pins where

> > > Bill measured the progress of new groups across the

> > > country.

> > > You can sit and gaze out the window that he looked

> > > out when contemplating how he would respond to the

> > > hundreds of questions

> > > coming in from all over the country about how to

> > > start a meeting etc.

> > >


> > > The best part - its largely undiscovered by the

> > > masses. You can get a quiet visit with a volunteer

> > > tour guide and take your time to savor each part.

> > >


> > > It is the most important collection of AA artifacts

> > > and history anywhere.

> > >

> > > I have been to East Dorset (birthplace, childhood



> > > home, gravesite)

> > > I have been to Akron. (Dr Bob's house, Mayflower

> > > Hotel)

> > > Bedford Falls is the Mother Lode.

> > >

> > > www.steppingstones.org



> > >

> > > they are having a big picnic on June 3 if you like a

> > > crowd,

> > > but I recommend you go when its quiet and no one

> > > else is there.

> > >


> > > Rob White

> > > Baltimore

> > > 410 328 8549

> > >


> > >

> > >


> > >

> > >


> >

>

>



>

>

>



>

>

>



>

>

> SPONSORED LINKS



>

>



>

> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



>

> + Visit your group "AAHistoryLovers" on the web.

>

> + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:



> AAHistoryLovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

> + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



>

>

>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3457. . . . . . . . . . . . Principles of the Program

From: Leo . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/28/2006 7:42:00 PM


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What are the "Principles of the Program"? I've seen a few lists,

each


with different content. Some common terms are: honesty, faith, courage,

willingness, humility and perseverance.


I can't find the information in any of the AA texts, therefore I assume

they aren't clearly defined. If there an official source for the

"Principles of the Program"?
Thanks,

Leo
__________________________________


From the moderator:
There are twelve "steps," twelve "traditions," and

twelve "concepts," along with four "absolutes," seven

"deadly sins," and so on, but there is no official

list of twelve things (or four or seven things) called

"principles." It is just a general term referring to

any kind of AA policies, rules, guidelines, or program

ideas.
It's good to begin by going to the Message Board at

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/messages

and doing a search for the word you're interested in.

A partial search which I just made for the word

"principles" turns up a large number of relevant

messages:


Messages 3116, 2908, 2899, 2522, 2521, 2520, 1973,

1972, and 1971.


To better understand how the word "principles" is

used in AA literature, it can be helpful to go to

a concordance to the Big Book, where one could look

at all the passages in the Big Book where that word

is used. Two useful concordances are:
http://www.anonpress.org/bbindex/

http://www.royy.com/concord.html


I think that anyone who goes through all the different

kinds of usages of that word in the Big Book will

quickly see that it is just a very general kind of

term, and does not refer to some specific list of

twelve words, or whatever.
Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3458. . . . . . . . . . . . Long form of the Traditions and the

12 ‘ 12


From: sobie396@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/28/2006 9:11:00 AM
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Does anyone know when the long form of the Traditions

were added to the 12 and 12, and any reason why they were

omitted from early editions, like my June 1973 twelfth

printing?

__________________________________
Greetings

I have a hardcover copy of the 12 and 12 That was given to me by a long time

member of the fellowship who passed away with 30+ years of sobriety, The

Copyright page lists it as a Twelfth Printing, June 1973, I happened to be

using

this edition at a monthly Traditions meeting last week, I normally use a



more recent soft cover edition, the format of the meeting is to read the

long


form of a Tradition and then read the text and discuss it. This edition of

the


book does not have the long forms printed in it anywhere. The last page

(192)


ends with the sentence: "We are sure that humility, expressed by

anonymity,

is the greatest safeguard that Alcoholics Anonymous can aver have."

Does anyone know when the long forms of the Traditions were added to the

book and any reason why they were omitted from early editions?
Thanks

Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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++++Message 3459. . . . . . . . . . . . Principles of the Program

From: David G. . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/3/2006 5:44:00 PM


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Hi Leo,
I posted this question, moons ago see # 1802 and was reminded by Arthur that

the card I purchased from a vendor at an AA function was a "creative

exercises of individual imagination".
I am not an AA Historian; I just "try" to spend the gold the

real Historians

mine.
"And Glen reminds us that: There are twelve "steps," twelve

"traditions,"

and twelve "concepts," along with four "absolutes,"

seven "deadly sins,"

and so on, but there is no official list of twelve things (or four or seven

things) called "principles." It is just a general term referring

to

any kind of AA policies, rules, guidelines, or program ideas......


Great info. on keeping it simple.....here we

go....."BUT", being of magnified

mind and perhaps still suffering from "I need more input", I

wanted


something to aim at. At least if God removed my defect, and nature abhors a

vacuum, then the principle would automatically come in.


From an early post of AAHL concerning the single word principles...

They originated with a Texas Intergroup sometime around 1951, I think --

there's a copy of the original Intergroup sheet/flyer/whatever in the

Archives in NYC. They are not GSO literature, and as they date from the

time when the Conference had been established, they are at most local AA

literature. So far as I know "practice these principles" in Step

12 is

intended to refer to the Steps. -- Jared L.


If you really want a nice list of "principles," there is a

recent book by

Dick B. (published in 2000) entitled "By The Power Of God, A guide to

Early


A.A. Groups and Forming Similar Groups Today"; see pages 190, 191,

192.
Finally, there were spiritual principles to be Practiced in daily living.

Principles from the Sermon On The Mount, from 1 Corinthians 13, from the

Book of James, from the Oxford Group's Four Absolutes, and from a number of

other biblical sources as well.
The Big Book reality does not specifically list the "Principles"

or describe

the "works' that are to the follow the attaining of "Faith."

But I believe

the following are among the principles the Big Book suggests should be

practiced:


. (1) Relying upon God (Big Book 46, 50, 51-53, 68, 80, 98, 100, 120); (2)

Being rigorously honest (pp. 58, 64, 67,9 69, 73, 84, 86); (3) Eliminating

selfishness and self-centeredness (pp. 67-68, 84, 86, 145); (4) Eliminating

resentment, jealousy, and envy (pp. 64-67, 84, 86, 145); (5) Eliminating

fear (pp. 67-68, 84, 86, 145); (6) Practicing patience, tolerance,

kindliness, understanding, love, forgiveness, and helpfulness to others

(pp. 20, 77, 83, 84, 97, 118, 153). And there are additional Twelfth Step

principles embodying ideas of humility, forgiveness, and service (Big Book,

pp. 73, 77). Also, stressing overcoming the bondage of self, sharing by

confession, making restitution, reconciling, seeking guidance, and so on

(Big Book, pp. 63, 73, 76, 77, 85-88).
The Rev. Harry Almond said, of the biblical principles of the Oxford Group

(which contained many of A.A.'s roots): "A good place to start is with

the

Ten Commandments. " In modern words, Almond summarized them as follows:



(1)

You shall have no other gods before me. (2) You shall not make for yourself

a graven image ... or ... likeness. You shall not bow down to them or serve

them. (3) You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. (4)

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (5) Honor your father and mother.

(6) You shall not kill. (7) You shall not commit adultery. (8) You shall not

steal. (9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (10) You

shall not covet.


And there were the Oxford Group's own spiritual principles of absolute

honesty, purity, unselfishness, and love from the Oxford Group's Four

Absolutes, which we have already discussed. As we have also discussed at

length, Professor Drummond in his The Greatest Thing in the World-which was

widely read and recommended in early A.A.-summarized the "love

elements" of

I Corinthians 13 as follows: (1) Patience. (2) Kindness. (3) Generosity. (4)

Humility. (5) Courtesy. (6) Unslflshness. (7) Good Temper. (8)

Guilelessness. (9) Sincerity." These, said Drummond and Dr. Bob, were

vital


elements in living the principles which Dr. Bob said could be simmered down

to "love and service." (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 338.)


Many A.A. principles, detailed elsewhere, came from the Book of James and

include: (1) Patience. (2) Seeking the wisdom of God. (3) Avoiding

temptation. (4) Telling the truth. (5) Avoiding anger. (6) Studying the word

of God and "doing" it. (7) Helping the unfortunate. (8) Loving

your

neighbor. (9) Avoiding adultery and killing. (10) Backing up faith with



works. (11) Bridling the tongue. (12) Avoiding envy and strife. (13)

Avoiding lying. (14) Avoiding selfish lusts. (15) Avoiding pride. (16)

Submitting to God. (17) Purifying hearts. (18) Being humble. (19) Avoiding

speaking evil of another. (20) Doing good. (21) Avoiding riches for the sake

of riches. (22) Avoiding grudges. (23) Avoiding swearing and false oaths.

(24) Relying on prayer. (25) Confessing faults. (26) Converting sinners from

the error of their ways. The following A.A. principles, detailed elsewhere,

seem to have come from the Sermon on the Mount: (1) Humility. (2)

Compassion. (3) Meekness. (4) Spotless conduct. (5) Making peace with

enemies. (6) Harmonizing actions with God's will. (7) Overcoming

resentments. (8) Making restitution. (9) Avoiding retaliation. (10)

Conducting prayers and good works anonymously. (11) Forgiving. (12) Seeking

God first. (13) Utilizing self- examination. (14) Doing the will of God.

(15) Being rigorously honest. (16) Avoiding evil. (17) Being unselfish. (18)

Loving.

end
When I try and practice the 12 Steps, the 12 Traditions and the 12 Concepts,



the best I can at the time, they pretty much capture the principles noted by

Dick B. I still like it.


Respectfully,

Dave G.
From: "Leo"


Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 23:42:05 -0000
What are the "Principles of the Program"? I've seen a few lists,

each


with different content. Some common terms are: honesty, faith, courage,

willingness, humility and perseverance.


I can't find the information in any of the AA texts, therefore I assume

they aren't clearly defined. If there an official source for the

"Principles of the Program"?
Thanks,

Leo
__________________________________


From the moderator:
There are twelve "steps," twelve "traditions," and

twelve "concepts," along with four "absolutes," seven

"deadly sins," and so on, but there is no official

list of twelve things (or four or seven things) called

"principles." It is just a general term referring to

any kind of AA policies, rules, guidelines, or program

ideas.
It's good to begin by going to the Message Board at

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/messages

and doing a search for the word you're interested in.

A partial search which I just made for the word

"principles" turns up a large number of relevant

messages:


Messages 3116, 2908, 2899, 2522, 2521, 2520, 1973,

1972, and 1971.


To better understand how the word "principles" is

used in AA literature, it can be helpful to go to

a concordance to the Big Book, where one could look

at all the passages in the Big Book where that word

is used. Two useful concordances are:
http://www.anonpress.org/bbindex/

http://www.royy.com/concord.html


I think that anyone who goes through all the different

kinds of usages of that word in the Big Book will

quickly see that it is just a very general kind of

term, and does not refer to some specific list of

twelve words, or whatever.
Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3460. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Which takes precedence, Long or

Short Traditions?

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/1/2006 6:17:00 PM
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There has been a number of postings of questions on the Traditions.

Below is a rather long posting that attempts to address the questions

asked about the Traditions. Much of what follows can be found by doing

a search in the AAHistoryLovers archive of past postings.


A History of the Traditions
Each of AA's three Legacies of Recovery, Unity and Service are

grounded upon a foundation of spiritual principles. Each Step,

Tradition and Concept is, of itself, a "principle" (i.e. a rule

of

personal conduct).


Bill W published essays (in the Grapevine, 12and12, "AA Comes of

Age"


and "Twelve Concepts for World Service") defining the context,

origin


and basis of each of the 36 principles. Bill's original Grapevine

essays on the Traditions can be found in the book "The Language of the

Heart." These Grapevine Essays later became the basis for publication

of the Traditions portion of the 12and12 and the "Unity"

portion of the

book "AA Comes of Age."


This history below provides a timeline of the origin and development

of the Traditions.


Source References:
12and12 - Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions

AACOA - AA Comes of Age

DBGO - Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers

LOH - The Language of the Heart

PIO - Pass It On

SM - AA Service Manual and Twelve Concepts for World Service


Notations show source references and page numbers
1937
The earliest experience recorded that influenced the Traditions is

contained in the Tradition 3 essay in the 12and12 relating to membership

requirements. It is often erroneously interpreted as having something

to do with drugs and is also often erroneously intermingled with an

incident that occurred 8 years later in 1945 at the 41st St clubhouse

in NYC. (PIO 318). The 1945 incident is discussed later below.


In the Tradition 3 essay in the 12and12 it notes that on the AA calendar

of "year two" (which would be 1937) the spirit of Tradition 3

emerged.

A member asked to be admitted who frankly described himself to the

"oldest" member as "the victim of another addiction even



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