Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page

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Hoosier Glenn

South Bend, Indiana

++++Message 3446. . . . . . . . . . . . Rockefeller dinner pamphlet

From: Charlie C . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/25/2006 7:02:00 AM

Hi folks, in reading once again AA Comes of Age about the Rockefeller dinner

I was struck by the mention in there of the fact that transcripts were made


the talks given at the dinner, and put into a pamphlet by Rockefeller. I


in the group message archives but didn't see anything about this - may have

missed it of course! So my question is, would the text of those talks or the

pamphlet be available anywhere? Thanks, this is a wonderfully informative

Charlie C.
++++Message 3447. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Loose garment" slogan

From: khemex@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/22/2006 8:00:00 PM

It appears four times in Twenty Four Hours a Day

(March 21, July 16, March 29, and March 17)

From: khemex@comcast.net

(khemex at comcast.net)

The quote you're looking for, I believe can be found

in the Twenty Four Hours a Day book in the "Thought

for the day" section of March 21st.
In the Spirit of Love and Service to Others,

Gerry W


March 21

"All is fundamentally well.

That does not mean that all is well

on the surface of things.

But it does mean that God's in His heaven

and that He has a purpose for the world,

which will eventually work out

when enough human beings are willing

to follow His way.

'Wearing the world like a loose garment'

means not being upset by the

surface wrongness of things,

but feeling deeply secure in

the fundamental goodness and purpose

in the universe."

From: "Kimball"

(rowek at softcom.net)

"Wear the world like a loose garment"

24 Hours a Day, July 16:

"We can believe that God is in His heaven

and that He has a purpose for our lives,

which will eventually work out

as long as we try to live

the way we believe He wants us to live.

It has been said that we should

'wear the world like a loose garment.'

That means that nothing should seriously upset us

because we have a deep, abiding faith

that God will always take care of us.

To us that means not to be too upset by

the surface wrongness of things,

but to feel deeply secure in

the fundamental goodness and purpose

in the universe.

Do I feel deeply secure?

From: sobermuse123@aol.com

(sobermuse123 at aol.com)

In the 24 Hour a Day Book, for March 29th, there is

a reference to "wearing the world as a loose garment."

Jeanne M.

dos 1-23-81

Concord, NH


March 29

"I must live in the world and yet live apart from God.

I can go forth from my secret times of communion with God

to the work of the world.

The get the spiritual strength I need,

my inner life must be lived apart from the world.

I must wear the world as a loose garment.

Nothing in the world should seriously upset me,

as long as my inner life is lived with God.

All successful living arises from this inner life."

From: "jwm_az"

(jwm_az at yahoo.com)

The quote is on the page for March 17, in TWENTY-FOUR

HOURS A DAY (the "little black book"), in the little

Prayer for the Day at the bottom of the page:
"I pray that I might wear the world like a loose garment.

I pray that I might keep serene at the center of my being."


James M.



See http://seniorark.com/senior_links_spiritual.htm

which also attributes it to Richmond Walker and Twenty

Four Hours a Day.



(born Aug. 2, 1892, died on Mar. 25, 1965 with 22

years of sobriety, honored all through Florida AA

as one of their greatest figures)

From the moderator, Glenn C.
Twenty-Four Hours a Day was the second most important

book in early A.A., second only to the Big Book in

importance. There were periods when more members had

a copy of the Twenty Four Hour book than had a copy

of the Big Book. This is an important part of AA's

Historic Heritage.

Most AA people from the 1950's and 60's will tell

you that they got sober on two books: the Big Book

and the Twenty Four Hour book, both of which they

read continually.

Twenty-Four Hours a Day was written by AA member

Richmond Walker, the second most published AA author

(the "big four" early AA authors were Bill Wilson,

Richmond Walker, Ed Webster, and Father Ralph Pfau).

Richmond Walker got sober in Boston in May 1942,

shortly after the first AA group was started there.

He eventually ended up in Daytona Beach, Florida,

and originally wrote these meditations on small cards,

for his own personal use.
The Daytona Beach AA group pleaded with him to print

the meditations in book form, so they could use them to.

The group did that in 1948, using the printing press

in the county courthouse, and Rich distributed them

from the basement of his home, taking any profit from

their sale and contributing it to the New York AA

Copies of Twenty Four Hours a Day began being obtained

by AA people all over the country, and soon replaced

The Upper Room as the standard AA meditational book.

The traditional understanding in old time AA was that

any book or pamphlet sponsored by one AA group could

automatically be used by any other AA group which

wished to do so.
When Rich became too old to keep up the pace, he asked

the New York AA office in 1953 if they would take over

printing and distributing the books. The New York AA

office was at is wit's end in 1952 to 1953, trying to

find money to publish Bill Wilson's Twelve Steps and

Twelve Traditions, and could see no way they could take

on trying to find the money to publish and distribute

a second new book. Ed Webster was simultaneously

offering the New York AA office The Little Red Book,

but New York turned his offer down for the same reason.

Patrick Butler at the Hazelden Foundation, which was

just a big farmhouse on a Minnesota farm at that time,

with a small live-in treatment program for alcoholics,

told Rich in 1954 it would take over printing and

distributing his book, to make sure that AA people

still had access to it. This was the beginning of what

was eventually to become the giant Hazelden publishing

business, but that was only much later, after the

psychiatrically oriented people took over control of

Hazelden, which had originally been run by just a

handful of AA members.
Richmond Walker had had nothing to do with the founding

of Hazelden, which was in Minnesota. Rich lived in

Florida and continued to keep up contacts with Boston

and New England, but was not involved with AA in the

upper midwest.




Photos at http://hindsfoot.org/rwpix1.html



From: "Kimball"

(rowek at softcom.net)
"Wear life like a loose garment"
AA Grapevine, May 1977, "Take My Advice--I'm Not

Using It", by Terry B.

"I was feeling rather depressed and called my sponsor

and found her in a similar mood. I said, "What shall

I do?" At first she said, "I don't know. If you figure

it out call me back." Then because she is a loving

person, a good friend, and has a terrific grasp of

the AA program, she shifted into sponsorship gear and

told me to do the following: Wear life like a loose

garment. Don't take myself so seriously. Count my

blessings. Find another alcoholic to work with. Read

the Big Book and go to a meeting."




From: ny-aa@att.net

I found on the web that, "Wear xx like a loose

garment," is somewhere in the "Twenty-Four Hours

a Day" book.
In another web find, it appears that that the

writer, Richmond W, may have gotten it from

St Francis.
In Renovation of the Heart, Dallas Willard writes:

"The one who is dead to self will certainly not even

notice some things that others would - for example,

things such as social slights, verbal put-downs and

innuendos, or physical discomforts. But many other

rebuffs to 'the dear self,' as the philosopher

Immanuel Kant called it, will be noticed still,

often quite clearly. However, if we are dead to self

to any significant degree, these rebuffs will not

take control of us, not even to the point of disturbing

our feelings or peace of mind. We will, as St.

Francis of Assisi said, 'wear the world like a loose

garment, which touches us in a few places and there


From: "Tom Misteli"


It purportedly comes from St. Francis of Assisi; the

full quote attributed to him is, "Wear the world

like a loose garment, which touches us in a few

places and there lightly."


Tom Misteli

Dallas TX


From the moderator, Glenn C.
The expression "wear the world like a loose garment"

does not show up anywhere that I could find in

"God Calling by Two Listeners," but there is no

complete concordance to that book, so I could have

missed it.
We need to remember that "God Calling," which was

one of the major Oxford Group works, was used as a

source by Richmond Walker for many of the passages in

the fine print sections of his meditations.

"God Calling" is still one of the five or six most

popular books sold at Christian bookstores, so if

anyone could find the quotation there, that would

explain not only where Richmond Walker got it from,

but the source of many of the other uses of that

quotation which one can find on the internet.



From: "John S."


I believe that like so many of our sayings and

slogans it is an adaptation of the Biblical admonition

to "Wear the world like a loose garment" ....

I believe that the biblical admonition was to

illustrate that folks shouldn't attach themselves

to material things too much but rather to put

their faith and trust in a Higher Power (Whom I

choose to call God).

Service is Love,

John S.

From: Lance Weldgen

(lance_1954 at yahoo.com)

"Wear the world as a loose garment" is a quote

from the Bible.

HUGS!!! Lance from colorful Colorado!


From the moderator, Glenn C.
I used the Bible concordance at
which is an extremely useful research tool, and

could not find any references under either "loose"

or "garment" that appeared to match this quotation,

in any of the Bible translations that I checked.

John S. and Lance W., if it is from the Bible, can

you tell us where in the Bible? I can't find it,

if it is.


From the moderator, Glenn C.

If you do a Google search for the phrase "like a

loose garment," you will quickly discover that it

has been used by literally hundreds of different

"johnlawlee" found it in a

catchy gospel tune by the notorious Father Divine

(who claimed to be God, among other things).
But it is hard to imagine Richmond Walker getting

that quote, which he clearly loved so much, from

that source (grin)!
The immediate source of the phrase in AA circles was

from Rich's book, where the many early AA people who

read that every morning ran into it four times a year.

The ultimate source of the quote is still up for grabs,

although St. Francis has been suggested.
But if people are claiming St. Francis, do we know

WHERE in St. Francis' writings? Remembering that the

so-called St. Francis Prayer was not in fact written

by St. Francis, but was written by a modern spiritual

writer on a little card with a picture of St. Francis

on the other side.

++++Message 3448. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: AA medallions for anniversaries

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/26/2006 7:15:00 AM

I believe engraved Zippo lighters were one of, if not, the earliest

mementos given out on sobriety anniversaries - particularly the first

annual milestone. They were relatively inexpensive, widely available,

and in those days just about everyone sobering up smoked.

Also Sister Ignatia had a sacred heart of Jesus patch she gave out to

alcoholic patients discharged from St Thomas Hospital. I believe it

was cloth material of some sort.
It's difficult to establish accurate primacy with these type of

matters. Anything that had inherent personal appeal was quickly



++++Message 3449. . . . . . . . . . . . 12 Steps

From: puggreen2008 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/25/2006 7:54:00 PM

Greetings all,
I heard someone sharing on the history of the

steps the other night and they mentioned a book

called 'In The Beginning' and this book contains

the steps ( 50 of them ) from which 12 were chosen.

Is there any truth in this?
Best wishes Des
Note from the moderator: the two best places to look

up old books are:



These are catalogs maintained by the professional

dealers in rare and used books. You can find AA books

in these two lists also, and can check to see what

the going rate is for such-and-such a printing of

such-and-such an edition of a particular book, if

you just want to see how rare your old book actually

The problem is that neither of these lists gives any

idea as to the contents of the books, and there were

an awful lot of books with "In the Beginning" as part

of the title.

Glenn Chesnut

South Bend, Indiana

++++Message 3451. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: stepping stones

From: and25g . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/22/2006 2:44:00 PM

I just came back from the visit to Stepping Stones. I was told

by the person who met me there (his name is Ken B) that Bill and

Louis had their furniture in storage after they lost their

Clinton st. house and it was moved to the Stepping Stones.

They do claim that the kitchen table is the original table where

Ebby and Bill met.

It looks like Ken B. spends much time at the Stepping Stones and is

happy to answer any questions visitors have. I have his e-mail and

will invite him to join the group.
Thank you,



(and25g at yahoo.com)

--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitchell K."




> Just a couple of points....


> When I visited with Lois about 3 months before she

> passed on there were no glasses in the kitchen just as

> there were no glasses in the kitchen when I visited

> there soon after she passed on.


> Maybe I'm losing my memory (I do know my short-term is

> severely damaged) but can someone refresh it about

> Bill and Marty starting what was to become the National

> Council in the livingroom


> As far as "THE" table.... it has been reported that

> there are a few "THE" tables where Bill and Ebby met.


> As far as the desk in the study on the hill being

> "THE" desk where the Big Book was written... I've sat

> at that desk many a time and it wouldn't fit in the

> office in the Newark office and I someone will have to

> fill me in if BandL stored the Clinton St. furniture or

> took it with them on all their moves.


> Another thing.... it cannot be classified as "It is

> the most important collection of AA artifacts

> > and history anywhere."


> I'm tickled pink that you enjoyed yourself so much at

> Stepping Stones. I wish more members of the Fellowship

> would have your interest in our history. However... we

> must temper historical fact with legend. Hey, I may be

> totally off base...




> > I just got back from a visit to Stepping Stones in

> > Bedford Falls NY (just above NYC) where Bill and

> > Lois lived from 1941 on.

> > It is well worth a visit from anyone even slightly

> > interested in AA history.

> >

> > They have done a marvelous job of keeping it in

> > exactly the same condition it was when Bill and lois

> > lived there (Lois' glasses are where she left them

> > in the kitchen).

> >

> > What a treasure trove of history!

> >

> > You can sit at the kitchen table that Ebby and Bill

> > sat at in Clinton street when Bill pushed a drink

> > over to him and Ebby announced " I got religion".

> > You can stand in the living room where Marty Mann

> > and Bill formed Council that would become the

> > National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence .

> > You can sit at the desk where Bill wrote the Big

> > Book and the 12 and 12.

> > You can see the map filled with stick pins where

> > Bill measured the progress of new groups across the

> > country.

> > You can sit and gaze out the window that he looked

> > out when contemplating how he would respond to the

> > hundreds of questions

> > coming in from all over the country about how to

> > start a meeting etc.

> >

> > The best part - its largely undiscovered by the

> > masses. You can get a quiet visit with a volunteer

> > tour guide and take your time to savor each part.

> >

> > It is the most important collection of AA artifacts

> > and history anywhere.

> >

> > I have been to East Dorset (birthplace, childhood

> > home, gravesite)

> > I have been to Akron. (Dr Bob's house, Mayflower

> > Hotel)

> > Bedford Falls is the Mother Lode.

> >

> > www.steppingstones.org

> >

> > they are having a big picnic on June 3 if you like a

> > crowd,

> > but I recommend you go when its quiet and no one

> > else is there.

> >

> > Rob White

> > Baltimore

> > 410 328 8549

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

++++Message 3452. . . . . . . . . . . . Which takes precedence, Long or

Short Traditions?

From: yankee1gb . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/24/2006 5:11:00 AM
The long form of the traditions were published/adopted first and each

provides a more detailed or precise statement than its short form

counterpart. The Short form traditions were, however,

published/adopted more recently in time and are about the only form

commonly mentioned.
Does either form take precedent over the other?
++++Message 3453. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Which takes precedence, Long or

Short Traditions?

From: t . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/27/2006 12:52:00 AM
yankee1gb wrote:

> The long form of the traditions were published/adopted first and each

> provides a more detailed or precise statement than its short form

> counterpart. The Short form traditions were, however,

> published/adopted more recently in time and are about the only form

> commonly mentioned.


> Does either form take precedent over the other?



Short answer:

whichever best applies to a particular situation... what ever yields the



While keeping in mind as many of the Traditions [which ever form] and Steps.

Long answer:

First we need to separate published vs. adopted.

The Long Form of the Traditions were first published, in the Grapevine,



as "Twelve Suggested Points of AA Tradition", a sort of first

draft form some


Then again in the Grapevine, October 1947, "Traditions Stressed in

Memphis Talk"

in a

more finished form recognizable to our membership today.

In Pass It On [PIO] pg 324, it states that Bill spent 1947-1950 out in the


trying, rather unsuccessfully, to "sell" these Long Form


Sometime in late 1949 it was suggested to Bill by Earl T of Chicago that



to be edited down, so Bill [with the help of a few trusted members] did just


[PIO pg 334]

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