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Hi Cheryl
As relayed to you in a separate email, refer to "Dr Bob and the Good

Oldtimers" pgs 72-75 for a recap of Dr Bob's bender at the AMA

Convention in Atlantic City, NJ. The specific reference to "five


is on pg 73. Which states:
"The blackout was certainly more than 24 hours long, because Bill and

Anne had waited for five days from the time Bob left before they heard

from the nurse. She (in response to Dr Bob's call) had picked him up

that morning at the Akron railroad station in what was described as

"some confusion and disarray."
Also for the information of other History Lovers, the following is

what I have been able to glean from various sources in trying to

arrive at an estimate of a likely date for Dr Bob's last drink:
The date of June 17 looks pretty compelling as Dr Bob's dry date.
Barefoot Bill obtained confirmation from the AMA Archives in Chicago,

IL that the 1935 Atlantic City, NJ Convention was held from Mon to

Fri, June 10-14, 1935.
Also, there is a graphic of the AMA convention program circulating on

the web that indicates June 10-14. There are also good clues in the

literature for a deduction.
In AA Comes of Age (pgs 70-71) Bill writes "So he [Dr Bob] went to the

Atlantic City Medical Convention and nothing was heard of him for

several days."
In Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers (pgs 72-75) it cites (with my editing

for brevity)

Dr Bob ... began drinking ... as he boarded the train to Atlantic City.

On his arrival he bought several quarts on his way to the hotel. That

was Sunday night. He stayed sober on Monday until after dinner... On

Tuesday, Bob started drinking in the morning and ... [checked out of


hotel]... The next thing he knew ... he was ... in the

... home of his office

nurse... The blackout was certainly more than 24 hours long ... Bill


Anne had waited for five days from the time Bob left before they heard

from the nurse... She had picked him up that morning at the Akron

railroad station...

As Bill and [Dr Bob's daughter] Sue remembered, there was a 3-day

sobering up period... Upon Dr Bob's return, they had discovered that

he was due to perform surgery 3 days later... At 4 o'clock on the

morning of the operation [Bob] ... said "I am going through with

this..." On the way to City Hospital ... Bill gave him a beer ...
In the video Bill's Own Story, Bill says he gave Dr Bob a beer and a

"goofball" [a barbiturate] on the morning of the surgery. The same

information is repeated in Pass It On, pgs 147-149.
See also Not God, pgs 32-33.
Estimate on the turn of events:
June 9 Sun - Dr Bob checked into an Atlantic City Hotel (he had

started drinking when he boarded the train on the train on the way in)

June 10 Mon -he stayed sober until after dinner
June 11 Tue - he began drinking in the morning - later checked out of

the hotel.

June 12 Wed - he went into a blackout (likely greater than 24 hours)
June 13 Thu - Dr Bob's blackout continues (may have arrived at Akron

train station)

June 14 Fri - Dr Bob picked up by his office nurse in the AM - then by

Bill later on (5 days after leaving) - day 1 of 3-day dry out

June 15 Sat - Day 2 of 3-day dry out

June 16 Sun - Day 3 of 3-day dry out

June 17 Mon - Day of surgery - Bill gives Bob a beer and a goofball (3

days after Dr Bob's return)

If, by any chance, there might be 1935 Akron City Hospital records

available verifying that Dr Bob performed a surgery on June 10, 1935

then that would be conclusive. Otherwise it would be safe to conclude

he was off on a bender in New Jersey.


-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl F

Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:14 AM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Dr. Bob's Sobriety date
What documentation was used in determining Dr. Bob blackout time


I can find reference to everything else. How do we know it was five

days since he left for the convention to the time he was picked up at

the train station?
Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3438. . . . . . . . . . . . Rowland Hazard

From: Ted Harrington . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2006 1:25:00 PM

My initial interest was in Mr. Rowland Hazard who

"saved" Ebby who then "saved" Bill W.

I live in La Luz, New Mexico and Rowland's name pops up

in conversation around here, as one of the owners who

bought and ran the old La Luz Canyon Grist Mill and

later a Tile Foundry. He also had the local Inn which

catered to clients from the east who would come out

west to experience the real wild old west.

The story around here is that his well-to-do-family

did not know what to do with him and so they sent him

out here to get rid of him!
Anyway I will be joining you as often as I can.
Ted H. (11 years)


From the moderator:
For an account of our current knowledge about this

period in Rowland's life, see Richard M. Dubiel,

"The Road to Fellowship: The Role of the Emmanuel

Movement and the Jacoby Club in the Development of

Alcoholics Anonymous," pp. 63 and 65-66.


Hazard comes into the story in Dubiel's book because

he was not only involved in the Oxford Group at the

time he rescued Ebby from the insane asylum in

August 1934, he was also a patient of Courtney Baylor

(from the Emmanuel Movement).
Dubiel writes:
"In the fall of 1927, Hazard went on a hunting

expedition to Africa for big game and specimens for

American museums. He contracted a tropical illness,

and on his return to the United States in 1928 ....

He established a ranch in southern New Mexico, at

La Luz, and shortly organized the La Luz Clay Products

Company. He had discovered substantial deposits of

high-grade clay for the manufacture of items ranging

from roofing tiles to decorative urns and vases.

Upon establishing La Luz, he returned to the East Coast

to pursue other ventures."
"The Hazard family papers ... show that after

January 1933, Rowland went through a long period

when he was virtually incapacitated by his personal

problems. He ceased being actively involved in the

ventures he had begun in New Mexico, and his brother-

in-law Wallace Campbell had to take over all his

regular business."
From January 1933 to October 1934, he was a patient

of Courtney Baylor, from the Emmanuel Movement.

(It was during the latter part of this period, in

August 1934, that he helped rescue Ebby from the

insane asylum.)
The Emmanuel Movement and the Jacoby Club were the

only organizations other than AA during that general

part of the early twentieth century who had truly

notable success in treating alcoholics. Circa the

very early 1940's, alcoholics were advised by knowledgeable

and responsible people to turn to A.A., the Emmanuel

Movement, or a psychiatrist to treat their problem.
Rowland was also involved with the Oxford Group at

the time he helped rescue Ebby, and as we know, it

was the Oxford Group to which Bill Wilson turned for

help instead of to the Emmanuel Movement.

His choice of the Oxford Group may have been due to

Ebby's intervention, and perhaps also seemed easier

to accomplish since the Emmanuel Movement and Jacoby

Club were linked to Boston, and Bill W. was living

in the New York City area, where the Rev. Samuel

Shoemaker's Calvary Episcopal Church was the American

headquarters of the Oxford Group.


Many of us would be grateful if you and some of

the other people in New Mexico who are interested

in AA history and archives could dig up any

additional information about Rowland Hazard's

years in La Luz. Even purely oral tradition among

the AA oldtimers of that area would be useable, to

help corroborate written records and perhaps fill

in a few details.

There is new research on Hazard and Jung which is

going to be published before the end of this summer,

which will change our whole picture of that story.

It is turning out that the La Luz period is an

important part of the story. It will shed some

"luz" on certain aspects of the story that have long

been buried in dark "sombra."
The account you have given from the local oral

tradition in La Luz fits in very smoothly with the

new material that is going to be coming out shortly.
Glenn Chesnut, Moderator

South Bend, Indiana

++++Message 3439. . . . . . . . . . . . "My Name is Bill W" available on DVD

in June

From: sargeantgascan . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2006 3:09:00 PM
You might be pleased to know that "my name is bill w" is going to


released on DVD in june, I agree it is a great movie and I was really

disappointed when I couldn't find it on dvd after finding my old VHS

tapes picture quality so scratched up.

--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "ArtSheehan"



> The video "My Name is Bill W" is also a great film. It has

one notable

> historical inaccuracy (probably for poetic license and time

> restraints) of showing Ebby and Bill working and drinking together in

> New York City prior to the stock market collapse in the great economic

> depression. Ebby lived in Albany, NY (and Vermont) and, with a very

> notable exception regarding an airplane flight from Albany to Vermont,

> he and Bill did not do all that much drinking together.


> Cheers

> Arthur
++++Message 3440. . . . . . . . . . . . Changes to the 12x12

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/14/2006 2:59:00 PM

Jim Blair has an excellent summary of the changes made in the sixteen

printings of the First Edition Big Book in message #2258.

I wonder if this sort of information is available for the 12x12? It has

been apparent to me for some time that the pagination changed over the

years, but I have also been told that changes were also made to the text

and to the start and end of paragraphs.

If this information is not available, when did the 12x12 achieve its

current pagination and text?

Tommy H in Baton Rouge
++++Message 3441. . . . . . . . . . . . COSTELLO, CHAUNCEY LLOYD; of

Pontiac; age 95.

From: Rebos7688@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/19/2006 1:00:00 PM
COSTELLO, CHAUNCEY LLOYD; of Pontiac; age 95. Born Dec. 30, 1910.

Surrendered to God May 11, 2006 surrounded by family and friends. Beloved

husband of

Vivian for 80 yrs.; father of Robert (Marge) of Houghton Lake; preceded in

death by children Arthur Costello, Delores Shear, Grace McCullum, and Dawn

Chancy; grandfather of 14; great grandfather of 26; and great great


of 10. Long time member of All Saints Episcopal Church. Owner and operator


Costello Excavating for 40 years. Recognized as the longest living active

member of AA with 64 years of sobriety. Memorial Service Wed., May 17 1:30


at All Saints Episcopal Church in Pontiac.

If you ever knew this man would you please send me your name and L.D. Date

and a short story to pass on to his family. My name is Henry L.D 8-28-76 I


fortunate enough to know Chauncey for over 36 years. E-mail-

_Rebos7688@aol.com_ (mailto:Rebos7688@aol.com)

From: "Cherie"

(odaat5 at gmail.com)

Date: Sun May 14, 2006 9:19am

Subject: Chauncey has passed away

Chauncey, the member of AA at the International Convention that was

the oldest member there, with now over 60 years of sobriety, passed

away on Friday May 12, 2006. He lived in Pontiac, Michigan and started

our local Thanksgiving Eve Gratitude meeting 50 something years ago.

We are trying to find out more info, so far I cannot find his

obituary, but am trying and when I find out more info I will pass it

along here.
Rest in peace, Chauncey. We will see you again.
In AA Service

Cherie' P.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3442. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Changes to the 12x12

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/16/2006 7:44:00 PM

Hi Tom
The book "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" was published in


1953. Bill W described the work as "This small volume is strictly a

textbook which explains AA's 24 basic principles and their

application, in detail and with great care."
Betty L and Tom P helped Bill in its writing. Jack Alexander also

helped with editing. It was published in two editions: one for $2.25

($15.50 today) for distribution through AA groups, and a $2.75 ($19

today) edition distributed through Harper and Brothers for sale in

commercial bookstores.
All printings of the 12and12 continue to be first edition which is

rather remarkable since it is over 50 years old.

Much of the material that Bill W wrote on the Steps and Traditions in

1940s Grapevine articles went into the development of the 12and12 (see

"The Language of the Heart"). A sizable portion of the Traditions

material also went in to "AA Comes of Age."

The time period of the book release reputedly was at a point when Bill

W was experiencing the worst of his long term (and quite severe)

episodes of debilitating depression. Many say it is reflected in the

tone of the book, however, I don't get a sense of it.

The page numbering of the early 12and12 printings do not correspond to

current version of the 12and12. They will likely be off by as much as

two pages. I don't know at which printing this occurred but the cause

behind it was that the typeface was changed and it, in turn, changed

the page numbers associated with the text. As far as I can determine

there were no wording changes made to the text.


-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hickcox

Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:59 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Changes to the 12x12
Jim Blair has an excellent summary of the changes made in the sixteen

printings of the First Edition Big Book in message #2258.

I wonder if this sort of information is available for the 12x12? It


been apparent to me for some time that the pagination changed over the
years, but I have also been told that changes were also made to the


and to the start and end of paragraphs.
If this information is not available, when did the 12x12 achieve its

current pagination and text?

Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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++++Message 3443. . . . . . . . . . . . "Loose garment" slogan

From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/20/2006 6:56:00 PM

This question was posed by a member of an on-line group to which I


Any takers? I heard it in a slightly different version, though: "Wear


like a loose coat."
Jon (Raleigh)

------ Forwarded Message

> I'm topic person tomorrow morning at my home group , and the slogan

about "

> wearing your sobriety like loose cloak " has been in my mind. I

asked my

> sister where it came from as she was the first person to tell me that,


> she thought it was in A day at a time , or the 24 hour meditation book.


> have been looking but have been unable to find it. Does anyone know

where it

> originated at?

++++Message 3444. . . . . . . . . . . . Carl Jung and Rowland Hazard

From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/24/2006 6:16:00 AM

An article has just been published in the May edition

of "History of Psychology," entitled "Verification

of C.G. Jung's analysis of Rowland Hazard and the

History of Alcoholics Anonymous." It corrects the

chronology of Rowland's life, placing his analysis

in 1926 rather than the later date which has been

The author is Amy Colwell Bluhm, whose PhD topic was

Carol (Fisher) Sawyer Baumann, a cousin of Rowland.

Baumann trained as a Jungian in Zurich during the

late 20s and 30s. Amy Bluhm found the information

about Rowland in Baumann's correspondence with other

family members.

I've been following the Hazard story for some time

myself, and last year I discovered the same information

after becoming interested another Hazard cousin,

Leonard Bacon. I've put my own article on a web site,

http://www.stellarfire.org/ which strangely enough

was completed the same week Glenn posted a hint about

Amy's article.
I have not obtained a copy of the Amy Bluhm article

yet, but I look forward to reading it soon. My own

article takes a more critical perspective, and perhaps

the combination of the two will clear up some of the

questions about Jung's role in the events leading

up to the formation of AA.

Note from Glenn C., the moderator:
This material, which Cora Finch and Amy Bluhm have

discovered, is one of the biggest and most startling

new discoveries in AA history made in recent years.
It changes the dating of the key events, but in the

process totally corroborates the basic elements of

the traditional AA story about Rowland Hazard's long

analysis with Carl Jung, and adds an incredible amount

of fascinating personal detail about Rowland and his

family, where it turns out that two of his first

cousins had also been analyzed by Jung.
Amy Bluhm's article was enthusiastically recommended

for publication in "History of Psychology" by all the

scholars to whom they sent it for reading, including

Richard Dubiel, author of "The Road to Fellowship:

The Role of the Emmanuel Movement and the Jacoby Club

in the Development of Alcoholics Anonymous" (2004).



Prof. Dubiel's book was one of the major works

establishing the fact that Rowland Hazard could not

have spent a year in therapy with Carl Jung during the

1930 to 1931 time period, based on documents which

had been analyzed by Bill Pittman and William White

(the author of "Slaying the Dragon") with similar

(The importance of Rowland Hazard is that he was one

of the Oxford Group people who rescued Ebby Thacher

from being committed against his will to an insane

asylum for his alcoholism. Ebby then got sober within

the Oxford Group, and soon afterwards paid a visit to

Bill Wilson, recorded at the beginning of the Big Book,

where Ebby explained that there was a spiritual solution

to the alcoholic compulsion.)

Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
++++Message 3445. . . . . . . . . . . . AA medallions for anniversaries

From: dcatini@bellsouth.net> . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/24/2006 10:32:00 AM

Hey Fellows,

Can someone plese tell me when DID AA CHIPS for

anniversaries come from and who started them?


From the moderator:
The question of "who did it first?" is complicated

by the fact that there were various kinds of things

used in the early days, including round poker chips,

square wooden pieces, and so on.

If the question is, "which AA group produced the

first special metal coins" which were handed out for

AA anniversaries, the Indianapolis group claims that

they were the ones. They had them stamped by a

company that made high school and college rings.

Indianapolis, Indiana, was around the 22nd AA group

started, so their group did go back to an extremely

early period of AA history.

See Neil S. (Fishers, Indiana), "History of

Indianapolis AA," February 19, 2005:

"The introduction of Tokens or Medallions probably

started here. Since I originally stated this opinion

we now have the substantiating correspondence, over

the signature of the Archivist of AA World Wide

Services Office, stating that as far as New York knows,

Indianapolis was the first AA group to give out tokens."

If we're talking about something other than stamped

metal coins, then we're going to have other groups

and other dates listed as "the first ones."

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