Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page



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> rather well:

>

> "For Shoemaker leaving the OG, cf. Clark, The



> Oxford Group, pp. 54, 80; Shoemaker (New York) to

> Wilson, 27 June 1949:

>

> 'God has saved you from the love of the spotlight,



> Bill, at least if not from the love of it -- from

> getting too much into it, and it is one of the biggest

> things about you.... If dear Frank could have learned

> the same lesson long ago MRA might have changed the

> face of the earth.'"

>

> ernie


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++++Message 3423. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Recent photos of John Seiberling

From: Fritz689 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/3/2006 11:29:00 PM


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Glenn,
The John Sieberling pictures you shared with everyone

have the WRONG caption. John's wife's name is BETTY, my

wife's name is Katie Ings and we go to Stan Hywet Gardens

and Museum often. John and his wife BETTY still enjoy

returning to the family grounds and meeting people and

sharing a moment or two as often as they can.


Gratefully Yours,
Fred Ings
_____
From: Glenn Chesnut

(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)

Subject: Recent photos of John Seiberling
One of our members kindly sent in two recent photos

of John Seiberling, which are the ones Fred is

talking about:
http://hindsfoot.org/archive3.html
As I understood the captions which he placed on the

two photos when he sent them to me, the woman on the

right in the top picture (and on the left in the

bottom picture) is named Katie and is John Seiberling's

wife.
Fred says no, that is incorrect.
So two questions for our group: (1) Is that woman

named Betty or Katie? And (2) is that woman John's

wife or Fred's wife?
I'm getting more confused instead of less confused!
Can we have some additional expert input here?

I have met John (at one of the National Archives

Workshops in Akron which Gail LaC. organized)

but have never met his wife, so I am dependent

here on people who know both of them to help me

get the right captions on these photos.


John was Henrietta Seiberling's son, and is the last

living person who was around when the original, early

meetings between Bill W. and Dr. Bob occurred in the

summer of 1935.


Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 3424. . . . . . . . . . . . Let It Begin With Me

From: rrecovery2002 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2006 10:05:00 PM


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Let It Begin With Me---Where is that quote from?
Thanks
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++++Message 3425. . . . . . . . . . . . Who were the "fortunate few"?

From: trixiebellaa . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2006 9:41:00 AM


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Who were the "fortunate few" who were able to

"give nearly all their time" to AA work at the

time the Big Book was being written?
Big Book page 19: "None of us makes a sole vocation

of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness

would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination

of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more

important demonstration of our principles lies

before us in our respective homes, occupations and

affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in

the sort of effort which we are going to describe.

A few are fortunate enough to be so situated that

they can give nearly all their time to the work."


Does anyone know who these fortunate few were?
Thanks history lovers
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++++Message 3426. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Let It Begin With Me

From: remcuster@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2006 5:20:00 AM


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40th Anniversary AA International at Denver,

from remcuster and Theresa L. (plus remarks by

Mel B., Jan R., and Lance W.)

______________________________


From: remcuster@aol.com

(remcuster at aol.com)


It was the "Theme" for the A.A. Convention in

Denver, 1975

______________________________
From: theresa leisinger

(brideofaa at yahoo.com)


I happened upon a mention of it from "Alcoholics

Anonymous Comes of Age". p.xi


Landmarks in A.A. History 1975 40th Anniversary

International Convention at Denver Colorado.

Over 19,000 join Lois in repeating the theme,

"Let It begin with Me"

______________________________
From: Lance Weldgen

(lance_1954 at yahoo.com)


In Al-Anon's Declaration similar to AA'sWhen anyone, anywhere...."

______________________________


From: "Mel Barger"

(melb at accesstoledo.com)


IT'S IN THE SONG, LET THERE BE PEACE ON EARTH,

AND LET IT BEGIN WITH ME.


Mel Barger

______________________________


From: "Jan L. Robinson"

(jbaldwin at imbris.com)


The only one that I know is a song "Let there be

peace on earth and let it begin with me."


Jan
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++++Message 3427. . . . . . . . . . . . new find orig writer of book

September Remember

From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 6:32:00 PM
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i received this email on my aa history bibliography website

today May 9 2006 regarding a page I had done on the alcoholism book


September Remember by Pseudonym Elliot Taintor
From : Caleb Mason

Sent : Monday, May 8, 2006 10:31 AM

To :

Subject : September Remember


This novel was written by Gregory Mason (my grandfather) and his wife

Ruth Fitch.


Caleb Mason
I am awaiting futher news and proof about this
LD Pierce

editor aabibliography.com


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++++Message 3428. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W.''s military awards

From: Danny S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 8:14:00 PM


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Hi all. I am not aware of any decorations Bill may have received in

the service. Has anyone got any inkling of what Bill was talking

about, specificially when he says in his story, "for had not the men

of my battery given me a special token of appreciation." (1:3)


What was the "token of appreciation"? Do we know or have heard of,

any


medals, commendations, honors etc.?
Thanks.
Peace,
Danny Schwarzhoff
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++++Message 3429. . . . . . . . . . . . Charlie''s lead? (of the Joe and

Charlie tapes)

From: Eric . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2006 9:47:00 AM
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I love the Joe and Charlie tapes, but along this line I was wondering

if there is anywhere online where Charlie's lead can be downloaded. I

found Joe's on xa-speakers.org but haven't found anything by Charlie,

if one even exists.


Thanks
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++++Message 3430. . . . . . . . . . . . Ebby T. Letter (1962)

From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 10:47:00 PM


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Envelope Postage Stamp:

Delmar N.Y.

January 23, 1962

9 AM
Envelope From:

E.T.Thacher

#1 Oakwood Place

Delmar, N.Y.

U.S.A.
Envelope To:

Mr. B Whitney Hillmer, Harbour Master,

217 Essex Street

Sarnia, Ontario

Canada
Letter:

c/o K.R.Thacher

#1 Oakwood Place

Delmar, N.Y.
January 22, 1962
Dear Whit-
Thanks for your Christmas card and I am sure you would have rec'd one

from


me, except that on Dec.5th, last, I was "took" with pneumonia

and


hospitalized until the 15th in Dallas. From there to a clinic for

convalescence until Dec. 27th, when I took a plane for N.Y. City. The

latter because the medicos said I would not be fit to work for some time,

and without employment I could not very well stick around Dallas. Good old

Bill Wilson met me at the airport and I spent a few days with the Wilsons in

their home in Bedford Hills, then on here.


Delmar is a suburb of Albany, which city is my birthplace and where I was

"brung up". It's a lot different after 24 yrs. absence!


I am feeling better, and just now getting my legs back under me. I have no

plans as yet, just trying to take it, day at a time,-and I assure you I

never have been too good at that sort of thing, but we'll give it a

whirl.
Enclosed, two snaps, all I could find but you are welcome,-they are pretty

bad, both taken in Dallas in '54. I unearthed them from a large folder

I

was able to salvage, the afternoon I cleaned my room, the day prior to my



departure.
Take it easy,-and keep those ships moving.
All the best

Ebby


(Ebwin T. Thacher)
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++++Message 3431. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Who were the "fortunate few"?

From: Jay Lawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2006 11:37:00 PM


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Comments from Jay L. and Tom H.

______________________________


From: "Jay Lawyer"

(ejlawyer at midtel.net)


Bill W. for one. Due to his work history (getting

tight at the wrong times) no one would give him work

so he spent alot of time to AA work. Dr. Bob worked

at the hospital and it is claimed he worked with at

least 5000 people in his 15 years of sober life. That

just names a couple that were so situated. I would

think that some of the salesmen that went around

the country that were given names of people who

wrote to 'The Alcoholic Foundation' were also meant

to be included in that statement.


Jay

______________________________


----- Original Message -----

From: trixiebellaa


Who were the "fortunate few" who were able to

"give nearly all their time" to AA work at the

time the Big Book was being written?
Big Book page 19: "None of us makes a sole vocation

of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness

would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination

of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more

important demonstration of our principles lies

before us in our respective homes, occupations and

affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in

the sort of effort which we are going to describe.

A few are fortunate enough to be so situated that

they can give nearly all their time to the work."


Does anyone know who these fortunate few were?
Thanks history lovers

______________________________


From: Tom Hickcox

(cometkazie1 at cox.net)


I have taken it as figurative speech with no one

in particular in mind.


I doubt that it can be demonstrated with any degree

of certainty one way or the other.


The Big Book is full of examples like this.
Tommy H in Baton Rouge

______________________________


From the moderator:
It seems to me that the operant phrase is

"nearly all their time," meaning people who

spent the majority of their time every week

working with alcoholics instead of working at

their jobs.
Dr. Bob is said to have spent very little time

on his medical practice as compared to his work

sponsoring alcoholics, which was the reason

that he and Anne had so little money for clothes,

household expenses, automobile expenses, and

so on. (See Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers)


Sgt. Bill S., who knew AA No. 3 well, says that

AA No. 3 made much less money than most lawyers

because he neglected his legal practice to do

AA work, but he told Sgt. Bill that "he got a

million dollars in gratitude" as his payment.

(As recounted in Sgt. Bill's book about early

AA: http://hindsfoot.org/kBS1.html )
It depends on how you define "nearly all their

time," remembering that Bill W. had a tendency

to exaggerate a bit.
Glenn Chesnut

South Bend, Indiana

glennccc@sbcglobal.net

(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3432. . . . . . . . . . . . SV: Charlie''s lead? (of the Joe and

Charlie tapes)

From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2006 3:40:00 PM
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From: Bent Christensen

(bent_christensen5 at yahoo.com)


Hi Eric
I'm not sure if this is what you looking for,

anyway, you can find a speak where Charlie tells

his story on www.pass-it-on.dk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eric skrev:

I love the Joe and Charlie tapes, but along

this line I was wondering if there is anywhere

online where Charlie's lead can be downloaded.

I found Joe's on xa-speakers.org but haven't

found anything by Charlie, if one even exists.

Thanks


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Johanna"

(flutters at charter.net)


http://www.recoverytimes.com/janc.html

http://silkworth.net/freestuff.html

______________________________
From: Azor521@aol.com

(Azor521 at aol.com)


Charlie's lead can be downloaded

Ya might give these a try.......... Floyd J.


_http://kischat.com/bigbook/joeandcharlie.html_

(http://kischat.com/bigbook/joeandcharlie.html)


_http://www.aaprimarypurpose.org/speakers.htm_

(http://www.aaprimarypurpose.org/speakers.htm)

______________________________
From: "jim_011591"

(jim_011591 at yahoo.com)


Try xaspeakers.org and The Primary Purpose

Group's website.


Regards, Jim

______________________________


From: "Robert Stonebraker"

(rstonebraker212 at insightbb.com)


Charlie Parmley spoke at the Akron Founder's

Day on June 11, 1994, so you may be able to

purchase it from a tape/cd catalogue.
Bob S.
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++++Message 3433. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Bob''s Sobriety date

From: Cheryl F . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2006 12:13:00 PM


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What documentation was used in determining Dr. Bob blackout time frame?

I can find reference to everything else. How do we know it was five days

since

he left for the convention to the time he was picked up at the train



station?
Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3434. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Let It Begin With Me

From: okmizlizb . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2006 3:11:00 PM


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My father attended the 1975 convention in Denver and told me that

they held hands and sang "Let there be peace on earth and let it

begin with me." Was his memory of this correct? (And/or am I telling

the story correctly?)

________________________________________
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, remcuster@... wrote:

>

> 40th Anniversary AA International at Denver,



> from remcuster and Theresa L. (plus remarks by

> Mel B., Jan R., and Lance W.)

> ______________________________

>

> From: remcuster@...



> (remcuster at aol.com)

>

> It was the "Theme" for the A.A. Convention in



> Denver, 1975

> ______________________________

>

> From: theresa leisinger



> (brideofaa at yahoo.com)

>

> I happened upon a mention of it from "Alcoholics



> Anonymous Comes of Age". p.xi

>

> Landmarks in A.A. History 1975 40th Anniversary



> International Convention at Denver Colorado.

> Over 19,000 join Lois in repeating the theme,

> "Let It begin with Me"

> ______________________________

>

> From: Lance Weldgen



> (lance_1954 at yahoo.com)

>

> In Al-Anon's Declaration similar to AA'sWhen anyone, anywhere...."



> ______________________________

>

> From: "Mel Barger"



> (melb at accesstoledo.com)

>

> IT'S IN THE SONG, LET THERE BE PEACE ON EARTH,



> AND LET IT BEGIN WITH ME.

>

> Mel Barger



> ______________________________

>

> From: "Jan L. Robinson"



> (jbaldwin at imbris.com)

>

> The only one that I know is a song "Let there be



> peace on earth and let it begin with me."

>

> Jan



>
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++++Message 3435. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Ebby T. Letter (1962)

From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/12/2006 2:09:00 AM


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Dear Friends,
You can view an actual photocopy of Ebby's 1962 letter and envelope at

www.4dgroups.org -- click Download/links, then documents.


Bob S., from Indiana
))))))))))))))))
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Bill Lash

wrote:


>

> Envelope Postage Stamp:

> Delmar N.Y.

> January 23, 1962

> 9 AM

>

> Envelope From:



> E.T.Thacher

> #1 Oakwood Place

> Delmar, N.Y.

> U.S.A.


>

> Envelope To:

> Mr. B Whitney Hillmer, Harbour Master,

> 217 Essex Street

> Sarnia, Ontario

> Canada


>

> Letter:

> c/o K.R.Thacher

> #1 Oakwood Place

> Delmar, N.Y.

>

> January 22, 1962



>

> Dear Whit-

>

> Thanks for your Christmas card and I am sure you would have



rec'd one from

> me, except that on Dec.5th, last, I was "took" with pneumonia

and

> hospitalized until the 15th in Dallas. From there to a clinic for



> convalescence until Dec. 27th, when I took a plane for N.Y. City.

The


> latter because the medicos said I would not be fit to work for some

time,


> and without employment I could not very well stick around Dallas.

Good old


> Bill Wilson met me at the airport and I spent a few days with the

Wilsons in

> their home in Bedford Hills, then on here.

>

> Delmar is a suburb of Albany, which city is my birthplace and



where I was

> "brung up". It's a lot different after 24 yrs. absence!

>

> I am feeling better, and just now getting my legs back under



me. I have no

> plans as yet, just trying to take it, day at a time,-and I assure

you I

> never have been too good at that sort of thing, but we'll give it a



whirl.

>

> Enclosed, two snaps, all I could find but you are welcome,-



they are pretty

> bad, both taken in Dallas in '54. I unearthed them from a large

folder I

> was able to salvage, the afternoon I cleaned my room, the day prior

to my

> departure.



>

> Take it easy,-and keep those ships moving.

>

> All the best



> Ebby

> (Ebwin T. Thacher)

>
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++++Message 3436. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W.''s military awards

From: khemex@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2006 11:32:00 AM


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Was it a gold ring which he was given, or a wrist watch?
A GOLD RING: from khemex@comcast.net

(khemex at comcast.net)


A few years ago I had the pleasure of going to Wilson House in East Dorset

Vermont while I was in the neighborhood on business (an account of this, in

detail, was posted by Nancy a year or two ago on this site). At that time

they


had on display, in the library, a first edition Big Book opened at that

page,


and next to that sentence was a pair of reading glasses (I suppose Bill's)

with


a gold ring with an inscription from his unit in the artillery battery

during WW

I which I was led to believe was the token of appreciation that Bill was

referring to. I'm not sure if it's still there and on display, maybe someone

who's been there recently can confirm.
In Love and Service to others

Gerry W.


______________________________
A WRIST WATCH: from gary lockhart

(garylock7008 at yahoo.ca)


Hi - Gary from Canada - Down at the Wilson House

in East Dorset Vermont, there is a wrist watch, to Bill W.

from his troops. There is a neat history to go with that

watch. It was turned over by relatives a few years ago.


______________________________
From: "jim_011591"

(jim_011591 at yahoo.com)


They gave him a watch.

______________________________


From: Tom Hickcox

(cometkazie1 at cox.net)


I was in the Army during the Cuban Missile Crisis

and it was a long-established custom to bestow a

token of appreciation on officers and senior enlisted

men when they left the unit. For us lieutenants it

was usually a Zippo cigarette lighter with the

regimental crest and a certificate of appreciation

signed by the officers of the battalion. This

general custom seems to have gone back to Bill's day.


Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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++++Message 3437. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Dr. Bob''s Sobriety date

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2006 10:23:00 AM


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