Dick B. claims to have those records in his archives. This was in Cleaveland
before the 3rd tradition was established. Back then AA groups could screen
cherry pick their members rather than having to accept anyone how walked
the door seeking help.
Bent Christensen wrote:
Does anyone know which records Clarence is referring to when he make
the statement about the recovery rate in Dr. Bob and the Good
Oldtimers, at page 261?
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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"The way our "worthy" alcoholics have sometimes tried to
judge the "less worthy"
is, as we look back on it, rather comical. Imagine, if you can one alcoholic
Bill Wilson, Who Is A Member Of Alcoholics Anonymous?, AA Grapevine 1946
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3358. . . . . . . . . . . . recordings of Lois Wilson speaking?
From: Rob White . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/14/2006 9:03:00 PM
Hazelden sells a set of cd's with Lois being interviewed several years
"An intimate conversation with Lois Wilson"
I think Stepping Stones may have it as well.
They are wonderful recording and have alot of history in them from "the
person" point of view.
Bernbil Productions PO box 1136 Little River, SC 29566
>>> email@example.com 04/11/06 8:56 AM >>>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:19:54 -0700
From: "Mike Aycock"
Subject: Re: Are there recordings of Lois Wilson speaking?
I thought that someone else would mention this.
There is an organization in Minnesota that does an great amount of AA
and Al-Anon taping that has several different recordings of Lois W.
Go to their site map and scroll down to Al-Anon history to start.
(Gopher State Tape Library, established 1974).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
++++Message 3359. . . . . . . . . . . . 57 years sober another major loss to
From: firstname.lastname@example.org . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 10:23:00 AM
This was the fellow who had 57 years sobriety at the convention on Saturday
night. He was in a wheelchair and gave away the Big Books to the newcomers.
CURRAN, ROGER GERVASE
Age 86 yrs. passed away on Sunday April 9, 2006 at his home in Audubon, NJ.
He is predeceased by his wife Mary J. (nee Doneghy) who died in January
Survived by his daughter Mary Ann Curran-Bailey of Williamstown and 3
grandchildren Gary Savvas, Jr. of Washington Twp, Nicole Savvas of Cherry
Danielle Savvas of Parsippany.
A retired Sr. Claims Examiner, Mr. Curran was employed by Keystone Insurance
Co. in Haddon Heights. He served on the USS Boise Naval carrier, Asiatic
Fleet, during WWII. An advocate for older workers rights, Roger was the
of The Golden Ax Club. He served on the Audubon Celebration Committee with
his wife Mary and was a Friend of Bill W's since 1949.
Relatives and friends are invited to attend the visitation on Thursday from
12:00 - 1:00PM at the HENRY FUNERAL HOME, 152 W. Atlantic
Ave., Audubon where
services will follow at 1PM. Interment will be private at the convenience of
In lieu of flowers, contributions in his memory may be made to St. James
Glory To God Fund, 400 Columbia Ave., Pitman, NJ 08071
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3360. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Joe and Charlie tapes online
Hazelden has also published a lot of good
books on AA history, books which the fellowship
absolutely needs to have available, but which
the New York office cannot afford to print.
In order to be healthy, AA needs to have many
more books available on AA history and on AA
spirituality than the New York office can afford
to print. So we have always depended on self-
publishing and friendly foundations and so on
to carry out this service work for AA.
But please, the works of Richmond Walker,
Ed Webster, and Father Ralph Pfau are NOT
"Hazelden treatment philosophy" and these books
were NOT written by a bunch of treatment center
psychiatrists. They were WRITTEN BY AA MEMBERS
FOR AA MEMBERS (to coin a phrase).
Hazelden has also published good books on AA
history by people like AA member Mel B. (who
was also the principle author of the conference-
sponsored AA history book called "Pass It On").
Mel is very definitely not a treatment center
What causes the confusion is that Hazelden
ALSO publishes books written by treatment center
psychiatrists. We have to distinguish between
those books and the books by AA authors. They
are two totally different kinds of books.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3363. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The Exact Quote From Dr. Bob''s
Memorial Service, Nov. 15th, 1952
From: Billy-Bob . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/18/2006 4:50:00 PM
The claim that 75 percent achieved a lasting sobriety itself seems strangely
ambiguously worded. "Of alcoholics who came to A.A. and really tried
ambiguous qualifier used to eliminate an unknown percentage of people), 50%
sober at once and remained that way; 25% sobered up after some relapses,
is the category I personally fall into) and among the remainder, (presumably
remaining 25%) those who stayed on with us showed some improvement. (What
heck does this mean? Does this mean the ultimate success rate is higher than
75%? Does this mean they stayed sober for a while but died drunk and
consequently were not counted as successes? It's very unclear.) Other
(What other thousands? How many other thousands? Does this refer to the ones
didn't really try?) came to a few A.A. meetings and at first decided they
really want the program. But great numbers of these---(Uh excuse me how
about two out of three---(Pardon me? two out of
three of how many?) began to return as time passed." Really? How do we
they returned as time passed, who was keeping track of their comings and
What does Bill mean by "showed improvement?" This statement is
simply to vague
to be meaningful. BTW, this statement was found in the forward to the Second
Edition which reads "Figures given in this foreword describe the
it was in 1955." So claims of a 50 to 75 percent success rate seem to
claimed for this particular time period and not for the time prior to and
shortly after the Big Book was published, the so called "flying
blind" period as
you describe it. If you read the statement very carefully you will find that
makes very little sense and leaves all kinds of questions unanswered. One is
left with the very general idea that if you come to A.A. and really try you
a pretty good chance of making it. While this impression might be pretty
accurate, and in my experience it is. We still
don't know what percentage of people "really try" i.e. make
sufficent effort to
make it. According to some of AA's own triennnial surveys a good 95 percent
seem to drop out during the first year. That means that about 5 percent
try". Which means that if 50% get it right away figure and 75% get it
figures hold true, it means that after all is said and done that 75% of 5%
it's mentioned in the Big Book!)
Lynn from Sacramento, CA
++++Message 3366. . . . . . . . . . . . Are there AA literature reviews?
This is a fascinating, useful and helpful thread.
Thanks to all.
Is there by any chance someplace where such
literature is reviewed by peers, or just AA
historians, so that relative novices like myself
can get a feel for what books are generally
better thought of than others?
- - - - - - - - - - - -
On Apr 18, 2006, at 14:42, Robert Stonebraker
Our Big Book Step Study Group in Richmond, IN,
spends the first two Tuesdays studying AA history -
we show a short movie, "DAWN OF HOPE" and
sometimes A HOUSE FULL OF MIRACLES" from Dr. Bob's
Home. We make great effort to make these 90 minute
sessions interesting. I have learned lots of
interesting little stories about Ebby Thacher,
Rowland Hazard, Carl Jung, Rev. Shoemaker, Clarence
Snyder and all the rest of those early historical
participants from non-conference approved materials.
Here are listed a few of our current book collection:
> * EBBY, the man who sponsored Bill W., by Mel B.
> * CHILDREN OF THE HEALER, by Bob Smith and Sue Windows
> * DIARY OF TWO MOTORCYCLE HOBOS, by Lois Wilson,
edited by Ellie Van V.
> * GRATEFUL TO HAVE BEEN THERE, by Nell Wing
> * HOW IT WORKED, the story of Clarence Snyder,
by Mitchell K.
> * SISTER IGNATIA, Angel of Alcoholics Anonymous,
by Mary C. Darrah
> * NOT GOD, a history of Alcoholics Anonymous,
by Ernest Kurtz
> * BILL W, by Robert Thomsen
Here are a few other non-AA history books we use
for reference because they were often read by early
> * SERMON ON THE MOUNT, BY Emmet Fox
> * AS A MAN THINKETH, by James Allen
> * THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD, by Henry Drummond
But naturally our main source of historical information
comes from the Conference approved books from GSO .
(james.bliss at comcast.net)
I have been literature chair for both District
and Area and have only seen verbal indications
that we are to encourage Conference Approved
literature. I will attempt to review any
documentation which I have received which may
include this in a written form but I do not
remember having read any. I was asked to talk
during a presentation about 'Carrying the Message'
and was instructed the content was to be about
carrying the message using conference approved
Personally, I believe that any material which
is spiritual in nature is acceptable and the Big
Book enforces this idea regarding spiritual
material. I do encourage various conference
approved literature for various reasons:
Big Book - it is the AA program
12 and 12 - obvious
Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers - historical perspective
Pass It On - historical perspective
Various guidelines and handbooks depending upon what
service work is being performed
Open/Closed meeting card - good to read at the
Anonymity - both the pamphlet and the brief card -
good to clear up the confusion about exactly what
anonymity is for etc.
I also recommend many external reading depending
upon the individual and where they are at:
Sermon on the Mount - Emmet Fox
24 Hours a Day
The Little Red Book
The Bible - for those member who believe in that
And many other items which I read from recommendations
from friends, religious leaders, browsing in stores.
My impression from the Big Book is that we should
listen to our spiritual leaders and seek their advice
on what materials we might want to read. To me,
this is about getting and staying sober, not limiting
my reading to a specific publisher.
++++Message 3367. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Conference approved
From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2006 3:40:00 PM
Is there any reference within conference approved
literature or AA World Services literature about
the common group conscience guideline of restricting literature in
meetings to only "conference approved literature"?
Conference Advisory Actions on Literature.
It was suggested that AA groups be discouraged from selling literature
not distributed by the General Service Office and the Grapevine.
++++Message 3368. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: 93% recovery rate in
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2006 4:49:00 PM
DBGO - Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers
SD - Slaying the Dragon
When Cleveland members separated from the Oxford Group (and the Akron,
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2006 5:07:00 PM
The info below was a previous posting to AAHistoryLovers:
I don't believe it's a stretch to suggest that when groups
they will allow only Conference-approved literature, they are likely
trying to achieve three things:
1. Keep out the proliferation of "recovery" writings that are
emanating from more and more varied sources (e.g. Barnes and Noble has
a "Recovery" section in their book stores).
2. Ensure that there is no blurring of the distinction between AA and
the proliferation of other "12 Step Fellowships."
3. Stay with literature that has been reviewed by a Conference
standing committee to ensure that it conforms to AA principles.
It would likely be better to use the term "AA literature"
"Conference-approved literature" since a fairly substantial body
literature is not required to go through the Conference-approval
process. Some examples:
1. Grapevine (and its non-English counterparts).
2. Box 459
3. Guidelines (the "yellow sheets")
4. Workbooks (e.g. Archives, PI, CPC, TF and CF service committees)
5. Markings (the GSO Archives newsletter)
6. About AA (PI releases)
8. Advisory Actions of the General Service Conference of AA (M-39)
9. Final reports of the General Service Conference
10. Literature published by GSOs other than the US/Canada and AAWS
11. Final reports of the World Service Conference
12. Memento booklets from International Conventions
13. Literature catalogs and flyers (AAWS and Grapevine)
14. Non-English interpretations of books/pamphlets
15. Various and sundry GSO publications called "service pieces."
(And I've probably missed others)
There is literature, published outside of AA, that is not
Conference-approved but which is certainly valuable and beneficial.
There are some wonderful historic and spiritual works. If you visit
GSO in NY and go the Archives exhibit, you'll see an entire wall of
books that are not Conference-approved - which is fine for anyone
engaging in serious research. On the other hand there is an awful lot
of nonsense, "recovery psycho-babble" and revisionist history
gets published as well.
So how do you deal with all of this? I believe most groups draw a line
by adopting a guideline to only allow Conference-approved literature.
What does GSO have to say on the matter? The information below is a
transcription of a service piece (re 15 above) that is included in a
packet that is sent to a new group when it registers with GSO. It also
appears in a number of service committee kits.
Service Material From G.S.O.
"Conference-approved"--What It Means to You
The term "Conference-approved" describes written or audiovisual
material approved by the Conference for publication by G.S.O. This
process assures that everything in such literature is in accord with
A.A. principles. Conference-approved material always deals with the
recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous or with information about the
The term has no relation to material not published by G.S.O. It does
not imply Conference disapproval of other material about A.A. A great
deal of literature helpful to alcoholics is published by others, and
A.A. does not try to tell any individual member what he or she may or
may not read.
Conference approval assures us that a piece of literature represents
solid A.A. experience. Any Conference-approved booklet or pamphlet
goes through a lengthy and painstaking process, during which a variety
of A.A.s from all over the United States and Canada read and express
opinions at every stage of production.
How To Tell What Is and What Is Not Conference-approved
Look for the statement on books, pamphlets and films:
"This is A.A. General Service Conference-approved literature"
All "A.A. Literature" Is Not Conference-approved
Central offices and intergroups do write and distribute pamphlets or
booklets that are not Conference-approved. If such pieces meet the
needs of the local membership, they may be legitimately classified as
"A.A. literature." There is no conflict between A.A. World
Inc. (A.A.W.S. - publishers of Conference-approved literature), and
central offices or intergroups - rather they complement each other.
The Conference does not disapprove of such material.
G.S.O. does develop some literature that does not have to be approved
by the Conference, such as service material, Guidelines and bulletins.
Available at Most A.A. Groups
Most local A.A. groups purchase and display a representative sampling
of Conference-approved pamphlets, and usually carry a supply of
hardcover books. Conference-approved literature may be available at
central offices and intergroups, or it may be ordered directly from
G.S.O. Groups normally offer pamphlets free of charge, and the books
Conference-approved literature is copyrighted with the Copyright
Office, Library of Congress, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. To insure the
continued integrity of A.A. literature, and to make sure the A.A.
recovery programs will not be distorted or diluted, permission to
reprint must be obtained from A.A.W.S. in writing.
However, A.A. newsletters, bulletins, or meeting lists have blanket
permission to use the material, providing proper credit is given to
insure that the copyrights of A.A. literature are protected.
The A.A. Preamble is copyrighted by The A.A. Grapevine, Inc. (not by
A.A. World Services). Beneath it, these words should appear: Reprinted
with permission of the A.A. Grapevine, Inc. The Steps and Traditions
should be followed by these words: Reprinted with Permission of A.A.
World Services, Inc.
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2006 5:20:00 PM
The list of source reference below were used to compile a timeline of
AA history that I periodically distribute in AAHistoryLovers. I've
read them all more than once and love them.
Research and Reference Sources
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, AAWS
Alcoholics Anonymous, the Big Book, AAWS
AA Comes of Age, AAWS
As Bill Sees It, AAWS
The Akron Genesis of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Dick B
Bill W by Robert Thompson
Bill W by Francis Hartigan
Bill W My First 40 Years, autobiography
Children of the Healer, Bob Smith and Sue Smith Windows by Christine
Dr Bob and the Good Old-timers, AAWS
Ebby the Man Who Sponsored Bill W by Me
Getting Better Inside Alcoholics Anonymous by Nan Robertson
Grateful to Have Been There by Nell Wing
General Service Conference - Final Reports, AAWS
Harry Tiebout - the Collected Writings, Hazelden Pittman Press
From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/21/2006 4:56:00 AM
"HOW IT WORKED, the story of Clarence Snyder," By Mitchell K.