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easy to obtain copies of this book.
There is a new edition of Allen's and Drummond's

books which Mel B. published in 2004 (see

http://hindsfoot.org/kML3rc1.html).
Allen's book in particular hits many of the same

themes which appear in Emmet Fox. This early

twentieth century approach to spirituality was

called New Thought. Many early AA members were

strongly influenced by New Thought in their

interpretation of the AA program. The Unity

Church of Peace is one group which still teaches

a New Thought approach to spirituality.


(This is NOT the same as "New Age," which means

magic crystals and channeling and all that sort of

thiing.)
The Detroit Pamphlet (the Detroit version of the

Table Leader's Guide, a widely used set of early

A.A. beginners lessons) had a long passage from

Emmet Fox at the end, called "Staying on the

Beam." ***

________________________________


Can any members of the group give us other references

to Emmet Fox's Sermon on the Mount in early AA

literature?
There was one weekly meeting in early AA in South

Bend, Indiana, where I live, which read Emmet Fox's

book during their meetings, and insisted that

everybody in the AA group be thoroughly familiar

with that book.

________________________________


*** STAYING ON THE BEAM, by Emmet Fox
(http://hindsfoot.org/Detr4.html)
Today most commercial flying is done on a radio beam. A

directional beam is produced to guide the pilot to his destination,

and as long as he keeps on this beam he knows that he is safe, even if

he cannot see around him for fog, or get his bearings in any other

way.

As soon as he gets off the beam in any direction he is in danger,



and he immediately tries to get back on to the beam once more.

Those who believe in the All-ness of God, have a spiritual beam

upon which to navigate on the voyage of life. As long as you have

peace of mind and some sense of the Presence of God you are on the

beam, and you are safe, even if outer things seem to be confused or

even very dark; but as soon as you get off the beam you are in danger.

You are off the beam the moment you are angry or resentful or

jealous or frightened or depressed; and when such a condition arises

you should immediately get back on the beam by turning quietly to God

in thought, claiming His Presence, claiming that His Love and

Intelligence are with you, and that the promises in the Bible are true

today.


If you do this you are back on the beam, even if outer conditions

and your own feelings do not change immediately. You are back on the

beam and you will reach port in safety.

Keep on the beam and nothing shall by any means hurt you.


Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3338. . . . . . . . . . . . The "heavy sedative" in Bill''s

story (BB p. 7)

From: trixiebellaa . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 11:18:00 AM
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Hi history lovers, can anyone tell us what was

the "heavy sedative" that was prescribed to Bill

on page 7 in the Big Book where he said:
"Next day found me drinking both gin and sedative.

This combination soon landed me on the rocks."


Thanks for you help in this matter.
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++++Message 3339. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W.''s talk at Rockland

State Hospital

From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 8:36:00 AM
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As I recall (though 30 years is a long time),

there was a copy of that presentation in the

AA archives. Someone at GSO may be able to

speak to that.


ernie kurtz

__________________________


bludahlia2003 wrote:
> Anyone know where I might find information about

> the presentation that Bill W gave to the Board

> Meeting at Rockland State Hospital (now known as

> Rockland Psychiatric Center) in 1939?


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++++Message 3340. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Emmet Fox

From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 5:44:00 PM


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Hi Matt,

I asked Bill Wilson about Emmet Fox and he said

they even attended his lectures in New York in the

1930s. He also said they read The Sermon on the

Mount.
I found my own copy of it in Pontiac, Michigan, in

February, 1951, and have read it ever since.


Mike E., the second member of AA in Detroit, even

told of reading it while he was still getting well

from his last drunk; he had to rest it on pillow

to hold it steady!


I regret that the unfortunate prejudice against

literature that isn't conference-approved has

eliminated this any several other good books from

most meetings. I recommend it whenever I can and

sometimes mention it in talks.
Mel Barger
___________________________
Note from the moderator:
See Mel's little article on Emmet Fox at

http://hindsfoot.org/Fox1.html


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++++Message 3341. . . . . . . . . . . . Emmet Fox mentioned by name in the

Big Book


From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 7:11:00 PM
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Dr. Earl Marsh, in his Big Book story "Physician

Heal Thyself," mentions Emmet Fox's then, and

still, popular book "SERMON ON THE MOUNT."
See page 348 of the third edition of the Big Book.
Bob S., from Indiana
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++++Message 3342. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Joe and Charlie tapes online

From: Ricky Holcomb . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 8:30:00 AM


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I agree, I know Joe personally and have never

viewed him as a person who is trying to get

anybody to believe that the success rate in AA

was any different than now--what I have learned

from him is that he feels strongly about trying

to get alcoholics to really try the steps and

have a life changing experience rather than just

attending meetings and trying to not drink.


Ricky H.

________________________________


Doug B." wrote:
Billy-Bob and Jim,
The Joe and Charlie Big Book studies that I have attended

in the past were nothing like you suggested in your response.


They were keeping it very simple and didn't seem to be on

any crusade except that of actually having you read the book

for yourself.
Then again, I haven't been to one in ten years..maybe their

message has changed?


Doug B.

Riverside, CA

Ricky Holcomb
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++++Message 3343. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The Exact Quote from Francis

Hartigan''s Book In Regard To Early AA''s Success

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 1:20:00 PM
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Ooops! I attached the wrong reply to Billy Bob's posting. Here's the

correction. I exchanged the info below with Billy Bob in a separate

email and would like to offer it for consideration:
Hi Billy Bob
I have Hartigan's book. The portion you emphasize illustrates the

matter of context I tried to address. Hartigan actually supports the

claim that 50% initially made it yet seems to try to portray a doom

and gloom scenario for early 1939. Hartigan should also have cited

Bill W's comments on the matter in 1955 in the 2nd edition Big Book.
29 stories were included in the 1st printing of the 1st edition Big

Book. 22 of them were dropped in the 2nd edition. There is a myth in

AA that the 22 stories were removed because the members had returned

to drinking. It's not true. In the introduction to the personal

stories in the 2nd edition Big Book Bill W wrote:
"When first published in 1939, this book carried 29 stories about

alcoholics. To secure maximum identification with the greatest number

of readers, the new 2nd Edition (1955) carries a considerably enlarged

story section, as above described. Concerning the original 29 case

histories, it is a deep satisfaction to record, as of 1955, that 22

have apparently made full recovery from their alcoholism. Of these, 15

have remained completely sober for an average of 17 years each,

according to our best knowledge and belief."


In the introduction to the "Pioneers of AA Section" in the 2nd

edition


Bill W went on to write:
"Dr Bob and the 12 men and women who here tell their stories were

among the early members of AA's first groups. Though 3 have passed

away of natural causes, all have maintained complete sobriety for

periods ranging from 15 to 19 years as of this date 1955. Today,

hundreds of additional AA members can be found who have had no relapse

for at least 15 years. All of these then are the pioneers of AA. They

bear witness that release from alcoholism can really be permanent."
From the figures in Bill W's introduction, approximately 75% of the

early members who had their stories in the 1st edition Big Book were

sober as of AA's 20th anniversary (1955). Even if half didn't

make it,


as asserted by Hartigan, the percentage that did is still consistent

with early claims of a 50% success rate.


The 1st edition story authors is the only fully qualified population

that demonstrates the claims that 50% made it and another 25% sobered

up again after returning to drinking.
Cheers

Arthur
-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

backtobasicsbillybob

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:51 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The Exact Quote from Francis Hartigan's

Book In Regard To Early AA's Success
"We have to wonder why both the Wilson's and the Smiths did not simply
give up. Today the nations best treatment centers report success rates
ranging from 25 percent to 50 percent. During Bill's stay in Akron, he
and Bob calculated their success rate to be about 5 percent, and among
the few who seemed to catch on, not all of them were able to maintain

consistent sobriety. The first edition of AA's Big Book, published in

1939, contains the personal recovery stories of many of AA's earliest

members. Some years later, Bill made notations in the first copy of

the book to come off the press, indicating which of the individuals

portrayed therein had stayed sober. A good 50 percent had not."


Francis Hartigan, Bill W., Pages 91-92
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3344. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The Exact Quote From Dr. Bob''s

Memorial Service, Nov. 15th, 1952

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 1:17:00 PM
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I exchanged the info below with Billy Bob in a separate email and

would like to offer it for consideration:


Hi Billy Bob
I have Hartigan's book. The portion you emphasize illustrates the

matter of context I tried to address. Hartigan actually supports the

claim that 50% initially made it yet seems to try to portray a doom

and gloom scenario for early 1939. Hartigan should also have cited

Bill W's comments on the matter in 1955 in the 2nd edition Big Book.
29 stories were included in the 1st printing of the 1st edition Big

Book. 22 of them were dropped in the 2nd edition. There is a myth in

AA that the 22 stories were removed because the members had returned

to drinking. It's not true. In the introduction to the personal

stories in the 2nd edition Big Book Bill W wrote:
"When first published in 1939, this book carried 29 stories about

alcoholics. To secure maximum identification with the greatest number

of readers, the new 2nd Edition (1955) carries a considerably enlarged

story section, as above described. Concerning the original 29 case

histories, it is a deep satisfaction to record, as of 1955, that 22

have apparently made full recovery from their alcoholism. Of these, 15

have remained completely sober for an average of 17 years each,

according to our best knowledge and belief."


In the introduction to the "Pioneers of AA Section" in the 2nd

edition


Bill W went on to write:
"Dr Bob and the 12 men and women who here tell their stories were

among the early members of AA's first groups. Though 3 have passed

away of natural causes, all have maintained complete sobriety for

periods ranging from 15 to 19 years as of this date 1955. Today,

hundreds of additional AA members can be found who have had no relapse

for at least 15 years. All of these then are the pioneers of AA. They

bear witness that release from alcoholism can really be permanent."
From the figures in Bill W's introduction, approximately 75% of the

early members who had their stories in the 1st edition Big Book were

sober as of AA's 20th anniversary (1955). Even if half didn't

make it,


as asserted by Hartigan, the percentage that did is still consistent

with early claims of a 50% success rate.


The 1st edition story authors is the only fully qualified population

that demonstrates the claims that 50% made it and another 25% sobered

up again after returning to drinking.
Cheers

Arthur
-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of

backtobasicsbillybob

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:18 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The Exact Quote From Dr. Bob's Memorial

Service, Nov. 15th, 1952
"You haven't any conception these days of how much failure we had. How
you had to cull over hundreds of these drunks to get a handful to take
the bait. Yes, the discouragement's were very great but some did stay

sober and some very tough ones at that."


Bill Wilson, Dr. Bob's Memorial Speech, Nov. 1952, At The 24th Street

Club in New York City, New York.


To Thine Own Self Be True, Billy-Bob
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3345. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Use of Dash in First Step

From: michael oates . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 6:42:00 PM


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Messages from Michael Oates, George Brown,

Tom E., and Rick Tompkins

______________________________
From: michael oates

(moates57 at yahoo.com)


A dash is an extra long comma used to hold the pause

before adding the new phrase or thought. That being

said maybe Bill really wanted us to think about the

preceding phrase before tackling the prase that

follows the dash. It seems that too many of us are

dealing with unmanageability rather than alcoholism a

dash is not an arrow.

______________________________


From: george brown

(gbaa487 at yahoo.com)


i might as well add to this discussion. the use of a

dash is to "emphasize and/or explain the main clause."

so. in this case it is explaining and emphasizing the

fact that we are "powerless over alcohol."


to my understanding it is explaining that when

we are powerless our lives become unmanageable;

it is also emphasizing that fact.

______________________________


From: Tom E.

(ny-aa at att.net)


Personally, I consider the dash--typists

sometimes called it a double-dash--to be

significant in Step 1.
IT IS, "1) We admitted we were powerless over

alcohol--that our lives had become unmanageable."


NOT, "1) We admitted we were powerless over

alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable."


NOT, "1) We admitted we were powerless over

alcohol because our lives had become unmanageable."


NOT, "1) We admitted we were powerless over

alcohol, therefore our lives had become unmanageable."


On the other hand, we are discussing the punctuation

"Bill chose" without asking who actually chose the

punctuation. As historians, we need to look further.

What was on his yellow pad when he dictated it to

Ruth Hock? Is that available to researchers? Was

Bill in the habit of dictating every comma, period,

dash, and paragraph break or did he just talk and

leave it to Ruth to get something meaningful out of

whatever he said? I believe it was the latter. So,

to what extent did Bill adjust what Ruth typed

to make punctuation and other details exactly the

way he wanted?


Even the draft that was distributed was the result

of much debate and compromise. We can't say that

every jot and tittle is the Revealed Word of Bill.

Actually, part of the strength of the A.A. Big Book

is that it is a consensus document. Every member

at the time and some outside friends had a say in

what was in the book.
Tom E

Wappingers Falls, NY

______________________________
From: ricktompkins@comcast.net

(ricktompkins at comcast.net)


Hi Art, we are in esoteric and mystical hot water,

obviously...


The colon use is correct in your posting; the colon

also could work in the dash-ing of Step One, as

could i.e. or e.g. The 1930s readers probably could

have handled any of them and future generations

(i.e. us) would have analyzed it as has gone on in

the past few posts here.


The dash separating the two phrases in Step One

is an esoteric emphasis, dontcha think? Perhaps the

original linotype operators enjoyed its use, too.
Hearing the step read as a part of "How It Works"

the dash sounds like a simple comma--thankfully

no one comes out and says "dash." Reading the text,

I always felt that the dash added real impact from

the first time I viewed it, and that impact remains

powerful to me today.


Two distinct concepts in Step One, placed in the

same sentence to drive home the idea that the latter

results from the former. Imagine that!
Esoterically, to me the two phrases work in reverse

sequence, too. I tell new prospects to consider

the dash as an equal sign, and the distributive

math principle kicks in as reinforcement. No balance

beam or seesaw analysis, please, it might bring on

a mysticism angle that's absent from this Step.


Cheers to all, hope a 2006 Springtime brings great

new discoveries to us!


Rick, Illinois
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++++Message 3346. . . . . . . . . . . . Monroe, Michigan

From: timderan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2006 3:56:00 AM


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Over the last few years there has been an off again and on again effort to

find out the history of AA in Monroe, Michigan. From what we can tell no

one has ever actually written down anything on it. We have some names and

an idea of when and where the first meetings were held. But, most of that

is sketchy.
It would be appreciated if anyone has any information that might be helpful

to forward it to me or post it on this message board.


Your help is greatly appreciated.
tmd
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3347. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Emmet Fox

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2006 10:14:00 PM


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At 09:02 4/16/2006 , you wrote:
>When/where I got sober (as they say), all of these were

still being

>suggested as essential reading (as well as the standard AA literature)

Big


>Book and the 12x12, etc, the little Black Book, Red Book and Green Book,

and


>Living Sober. By sponsors and my home group.
Would these books be Richmond Walker's 24 Hours a Day, Webster's Little Red

Book and Stools and Bottles? Big Book, 12x12, and Living Sober are

self-explanatory.
My wife spent her first 18y in NYC and she says they gave out Living Sober

to new people. I think that is a great idea. I could pick it up when I

was new and read a few pages and was unable to do the same with the Big

Book.
Tommy H


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3348. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Emmet Fox

From: Lee Nickerson . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2006 11:28:00 PM


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I surely agree. I was fortunate to be Maine's Archivist for eight

years and by what seemed necessity, I began to do the unthinkable -

read non-conference approved literature. It enhanced my sobriety and

allowed me to do my service job in a much more informative and

interesting way. I picked up the habit and have been at it ever

since. I just finished a book called Drinking: A Love Story by

Caroline Knapp - one of the best personal stories I have read in a

long time. As far as AA history goes; Not God, Sister Ignatia:The

Angel Of AA, Grateful to Have Been There and so many others have

made my journey much more enlightened and joyful. Many of the books

I have read were recommended by Frank M. the late alcoholic

archivist of GSO. He was a truly sweet gentleman and I miss him to

this day.

lee
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Mel Barger"



wrote:


>

> Hi Matt,

> I asked Bill Wilson about Emmet Fox and he said

> they even attended his lectures in New York in the

> 1930s. He also said they read The Sermon on the

> Mount.


>

> I found my own copy of it in Pontiac, Michigan, in

> February, 1951, and have read it ever since.

>

> Mike E., the second member of AA in Detroit, even



> told of reading it while he was still getting well

> from his last drunk; he had to rest it on pillow

> to hold it steady!




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