++++Message 3322. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Bill W.''s last trip to Towns
From: John S. . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/10/2006 7:51:00 PM
As I read the literature (especially ‘The Doctor's
Opinion') the first page
of the first of the two letters on page xxv (4th ed) it states clearly:
the course of his third treatment he acquired certain ideas concerning a
possible means of recovery." It has always been my understanding that
only made 3 trips to Charlie Town's hospital. In ‘Bill's
Story' on page 7
he describes what I believe to be his first trip to Town's when he
brother-in-law is a physician, and through his kindness and that of my
mother I was placed in a nationally-known hospital for the mental and
physical rehabilitation of alcoholics." Further down on that same page
relates: "After a time I returned to the hospital." On page 8 he
that: "on ‘Armistice Day' (November 11th) 1934 I was off
finally on page 13 he states: "At the hospital I was separated from
for the last time. Treatment seemed wise, for I showed signs of delirium
tremens." This would appear to this old drunk to be the ‘third
time he went to Town's hospital.
Submitted in humility for your consideration,
I understand that Bill W.'s first three trips to
Towns Hospital were paid for by his brother-in-law,
Who paid for his fourth trip, in December 1934?
++++Message 3323. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Are there recordings of Lois
From: Ken Ring . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/11/2006 8:56:00 AM
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:19:54 -0700
From: "Mike Aycock"
Subject: Re: Are there recordings of Lois Wilson speaking?
I thought that someone else would mention this.
There is an organization in Minnesota that does an great amount of AA
and Al-Anon taping that has several different recordings of Lois W.
Go to their site map and scroll down to Al-Anon history to start.
(Gopher State Tape Library, established 1974).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3324. . . . . . . . . . . . Question about "Freeman Carpenter" =
From: Chris Budnick . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 1:00:00 AM
Here is an interesting link I found: http://www.freemancarpenter.com/
On 4/10/06, Jean Cottel wrote:
> I have come across a booklet called "Stand Tall
> Again," written under the pen name of "Freeman."
> It is signed in the front "Clyde Bertram, 'Freeman'".
> No date on it, it is a story of getting sober in AA.
> Jean Cottel
> (jcottel at earthlink.net)
++++Message 3325. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Use of Dash in First Step
type that were written off as hopeless and beyond any help (so that a
single success would be remarkable in terms of the typical fatal
outcome for these prospects).
The other context issue concerns remarks attributed to Bill W at Dr
Bob's memorial (and Hartigan's citation as well). [In the talk]
qualified that he was referring to the "flying blind" period of
was Hartigan). It would hardly qualify as an appropriate point of
reference to characterize AA success or failure.
Billy Bob does hit on a point that celebrity (in the case of Joe and
Charlie) can vest members with an aura of historical validity when, in
fact, they are simply relaying what they believe is true but is
lacking in factual demonstration. Clancy I of LA also likes to mention
in his talks that most of the members who had their stories printed in
the 1st edition Big Book went back to drinking. That too is myth and
is completely refuted by Bill W in his introduction to the new stories
in the 2nd edition Big Book. But I guess sticking to the facts doesn't
always make for an entertaining talk to the circuit speaker folks.
Finally, and this can't be stressed enough, AA started with 2 members
in June 1935 and today has well over 2 million members. That is not a
measurement of failure by anybody's benchmark. In between 1935 and
today there were tens of millions of alcoholics who recovered and
survived thanks to AA and this too is not factored into the
assessments of success and failure outcomes.
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:18 PM
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The Exact Quote From Dr. Bob's Memorial
Service, Nov. 15th, 1952
"You haven't any conception these days of how much failure we had. How
you had to cull over hundreds of these drunks to get a handful to take
the bait. Yes, the discouragement's were very great but some did stay
sober and some very tough ones at that."
Bill Wilson, Dr. Bob's Memorial Speech, Nov. 1952, At The 24th Street
Club in New York City, New York.
To Thine Own Self Be True, Billy-Bob
Yahoo! Groups Links
++++Message 3328. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W.''s talk at Rockland State
From: bludahlia2003 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 4:56:00 PM
Anyone know where I might find information about
"Freeman Carpenter" (Clyde B., who is alive, sober -- I believe --
since 1946, and should therefore be anonymous) has his own website,
FreemanCarpenter@aol.com, lives in Eastern PA, and has been invited to
the History and Archives Gathering in Lebanon PA June 24 2006 -- I don't
know if he'll be able to be there, as he is 86 years old and lives 90
or so miles away. -- Jared Lobdell
++++Message 3330. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Bill W.''s last trip to Towns
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/13/2006 9:49:00 AM
Bill had 4 admissions to Towns Hospital.
Source References (with page numbers)
AACOA - AA Comes of Age