Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page



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wrote:

> hi history lovers,

>

> Page 140 of To Employers says: "Can it be appreciated that he has



> been

> a victim of crooked thinking, directly caused by the action of

alcohol

>

> on his brain?"



>

> One of our members asked why would Bill put such an important piece

of

>

> information in the chapter to employers,instead of perhaps one of



the

> chapters at the beginning of the book.

>

> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.



>

> Thanks from Tracy

> The Barking Big Book Study Group

> England

>

>

>



>

>

>



>

>

> SPONSORED LINKS



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> Alcoholics anonymous

>

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> Yahoo! Groups Links

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++++Message 3273. . . . . . . . . . . . the spirit of rotation

From: wilfried antheunis . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/19/2006 2:23:00 PM


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Can any one say when this saying: "The spirit of rotation" came

into use"?

and is it and its usage documented?

thanks.


wil
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++++Message 3274. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: medallions

From: timderan . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2006 1:08:00 AM


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"Bright Star's web site claims that they went into business in

1950."
As a matter of information, Bright Star is still a good source of

medallions.
But, there is also the point that in the earliest days poker chips inscribed

with one's sobriety date on it were used as signs of lengths of sobriety.

Which might be why tokens/medallions are sometimes referred to as chips.
tmd
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++++Message 3275. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W. - One Man''s Story -

Recording Information Sought

From: Steve Leeds . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2006 11:35:00 AM
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Hey All,
I recently got a copy of a recording that had no information with it

other than the title "One Man's Story"


Here's a few things that might help:
West Coast

Outside


Bill thanks a Mayor

Lois speaks early in the tape

Ebby Speaks early

Bill makes reference to it being the Sunrise of AA


Thanks,

Steven
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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++++Message 3276. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Stump the Archivist"

From: David Johnson . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/19/2006 5:14:00 PM


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As Alcoholics Anonymous is "a fellowship of men and women who share

their experience, strength and hope," I'd have to say Bill W.'s life,

the good, the bad and the ugly, is ALL a part of A.A. history,

especially where it affected AAWS and it's legal agreements with him.


Which is where Bill's mistress comes in. The "search" function for

this group is quite good and uncovered the following:


This is from Message # 2519 and part of a larger post on royalty

information re: The Big Book. The author: Art Sheehan

1963 - Bill modified his royalty agreement with AAWS so that 10% of

his royalties went to his mistress, Grapevine Editor, Helen W.


Of course, we have Art Sheehan's most recent post as well.
These are purported copies of the actual will of Bill Wilson and

mention : http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-BillWill.html and

http://gsowatch.aamo.info/aaws/heirs.htm. The relevant quote: "A. I

give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his Will to take 10%

royalties from his wife Lois and give those 10% to his mistress

Helen], of Pleasantville, New York, if she survives me, a life

interest in ten percent (10%) of such royalties. If the said HELEN

WYNN does not survive me, I direct that the said ten percent (10%) of

such royalties shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions

of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this Article FIRST."


If anyone can corroborate the veracity of these documents OR disprove

their veracity, I'd be most obliged.


"We claim progress, not perfection." There is a desire among some

AA

history buffs to "sanitize" the progress and development of AA.



When

one begins to add up references to the "original message" and

claiming

only the first 164 pages (actually just the first 163 as p. 164

includes the line "We realize we only know but a little ....")are

the


"real" A.A., a trend towards fundamentalism and away from

plurality

can be seen.
AA has helped me develop a personal relationship with a God loving and

powerful enough to make use of even my defects of character. To

acknowledge the humanness of AA's members, even it's founders, is also

to come to appreciate the power of the principles of the program.


L'Chaim!
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hickcox

wrote:


>

> At 19:01 3/16/2006 , James Blair wrote:

>

>

>



> > JANUARY 2006 STUMP THE ARCHIVIST

> >


> > Did Bill Wilson have a mistress who lived in Miami?

> >


> >Who he bonked or didn't bonk has nothing to do with AA history.

> >


> > When and where did the poker chip tradition start for the groups?

> >


> >Chips, Medallions and Birthdays

> >


> >

> >


> >

> >


> >The traditions of chips, medallions and birthdays vary in different

parts of


> >the country and I thought it would be interesting to look up some

of the


> >history on them.

> >


>

> Neither do the traditions of chips, medallions, and

> birthdays/anniversaries. They are local traditions and not part of A.A.

>

> Tommy in Baton Rouge



>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



>
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++++Message 3277. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: "Stump the Archivist"

From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2006 2:11:00 PM


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David wrote

As Alcoholics Anonymous is "a fellowship of men and women who share

their

experience, strength and hope," I'd have to say Bill W.'s life, the



good,

the bad and the ugly, is ALL a part of A.A. history, especially where it

affected AAWS and it's legal agreements with him.
The agreement between Bill W. and the AAWS is no one's business but the

officers of that corporation and the relatives of Bill W.


Why can't members understand that.
BTW, we share our experience, strength and hope in order that we may solve

our common problem and help others to revover from alcoholism and not to

delve into private business.

Jim
>

> Which is where Bill's mistress comes in. The "search"

function for

> this group is quite good and uncovered the following:

>

> This is from Message # 2519 and part of a larger post on royalty



> information re: The Big Book. The author: Art Sheehan

> 1963 - Bill modified his royalty agreement with AAWS so that 10% of

> his royalties went to his mistress, Grapevine Editor, Helen W.

>

> Of course, we have Art Sheehan's most recent post as well.



>

> These are purported copies of the actual will of Bill Wilson and

> mention : http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-BillWill.html and

> http://gsowatch.aamo.info/aaws/heirs.htm. The relevant quote: "A.

I

> give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his Will to take 10%



> royalties from his wife Lois and give those 10% to his mistress

> Helen], of Pleasantville, New York, if she survives me, a life

> interest in ten percent (10%) of such royalties. If the said HELEN

> WYNN does not survive me, I direct that the said ten percent (10%) of

> such royalties shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions

> of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this Article FIRST."

>

> If anyone can corroborate the veracity of these documents OR disprove



> their veracity, I'd be most obliged.

>

> "We claim progress, not perfection." There is a desire among



some AA

> history buffs to "sanitize" the progress and development of

AA. When

> one begins to add up references to the "original message" and

claiming

> only the first 164 pages (actually just the first 163 as p. 164

> includes the line "We realize we only know but a little

....")are the

> "real" A.A., a trend towards fundamentalism and away from

plurality

> can be seen.

>

> AA has helped me develop a personal relationship with a God loving and



> powerful enough to make use of even my defects of character. To

> acknowledge the humanness of AA's members, even it's founders, is also

> to come to appreciate the power of the principles of the program.

>

> L'Chaim!



>

>

> --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hickcox



> wrote:


>>

>> At 19:01 3/16/2006 , James Blair wrote:

>>

>>

>>



>> > JANUARY 2006 STUMP THE ARCHIVIST

>> >


>> > Did Bill Wilson have a mistress who lived in Miami?

>> >


>> >Who he bonked or didn't bonk has nothing to do with AA history.

>> >


>> > When and where did the poker chip tradition start for the

groups?


>> >

>> >Chips, Medallions and Birthdays

>> >

>> >


>> >

>> >


>> >

>> >The traditions of chips, medallions and birthdays vary in

different

> parts of

>> >the country and I thought it would be interesting to look up

some


> of the

>> >history on them.

>> >

>>

>> Neither do the traditions of chips, medallions, and



>> birthdays/anniversaries. They are local traditions and not part of

A.A.


>>

>> Tommy in Baton Rouge

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



>>

>

>



>

>

>



>

>

>



>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>



>

>

>



>
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++++Message 3278. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: "Stump the Archivist"

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2006 5:47:00 PM


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Hi David
In regards to citing information from the AAHL archives please also

include message 2933, subject: Bill W and Helen.


----------

Hi Merton


Bill W, like any other human being, had his strengths and weaknesses.

One of his weaknesses was reputedly a "fondness for the ladies." I

am

not out to demean Bill but we also should be careful not to elevate



him to demigod status.
The euphemism of "Founder's Watch" emanates from Francis

Hartigan's

book "Bill W" (re pg 192). Hartigan was told of it by Barry L

(author


of "Living Sober").
Hartigan reveals in detail Bill's relationship with his mistress Helen

W. She was the woman for whom Bill changed his will and royalty

agreement to bequeath her 10% of his book royalties. That had to be an

excruciating embarrassment to Lois.


Humans tend to be humans whether they are named Bill W or Bill Clinton

or Dr Martin Luther King or John or Bobby Kennedy, etc., etc. Their

human frailties should not diminish their extraordinary contributions

to humanity.


Cheers

Arthur


----------
In the ('heirs.htm") web link that you reference in your message,

download the PDF file that contains the last will and testament of

Lois W (it should be W.pdf). It contains photo-copies of her actual

will and relevant documents (as opposed to transcriptions). Bill's

will and codicil are also contained in Lois W will.
Cheers

Again
-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Johnson

Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 4:14 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "Stump the Archivist"
As Alcoholics Anonymous is "a fellowship of men and women who share

their experience, strength and hope," I'd have to say Bill W.'s life,

the good, the bad and the ugly, is ALL a part of A.A. history,

especially where it affected AAWS and it's legal agreements with him.


Which is where Bill's mistress comes in. The "search" function for

this group is quite good and uncovered the following:


This is from Message # 2519 and part of a larger post on royalty

information re: The Big Book. The author: Art Sheehan

1963 - Bill modified his royalty agreement with AAWS so that 10% of

his royalties went to his mistress, Grapevine Editor, Helen W.


Of course, we have Art Sheehan's most recent post as well.
These are purported copies of the actual will of Bill Wilson and

mention : http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-BillWill.html and

http://gsowatch.aamo.info/aaws/heirs.htm. The relevant quote: "A. I

give and bequeath to HELEN WYNN [Bill changed his Will to take 10%

royalties from his wife Lois and give those 10% to his mistress

Helen], of Pleasantville, New York, if she survives me, a life

interest in ten percent (10%) of such royalties. If the said HELEN

WYNN does not survive me, I direct that the said ten percent (10%) of

such royalties shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions

of Paragraphs B or C, as the case my be of this Article FIRST."


If anyone can corroborate the veracity of these documents OR disprove

their veracity, I'd be most obliged.


"We claim progress, not perfection." There is a desire among some

AA

history buffs to "sanitize" the progress and development of AA.



When

one begins to add up references to the "original message" and

claiming

only the first 164 pages (actually just the first 163 as p. 164

includes the line "We realize we only know but a little ....")are

the


"real" A.A., a trend towards fundamentalism and away from

plurality

can be seen.
AA has helped me develop a personal relationship with a God loving and

powerful enough to make use of even my defects of character. To

acknowledge the humanness of AA's members, even it's founders, is also

to come to appreciate the power of the principles of the program.


L'Chaim!
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hickcox

wrote:


>

> At 19:01 3/16/2006 , James Blair wrote:

>

>

>



> > JANUARY 2006 STUMP THE ARCHIVIST

> >


> > Did Bill Wilson have a mistress who lived in Miami?

> >


> >Who he bonked or didn't bonk has nothing to do with AA history.

> >


> > When and where did the poker chip tradition start for the groups?

> >


> >Chips, Medallions and Birthdays

> >


> >

> >


> >

> >


> >The traditions of chips, medallions and birthdays vary in different

parts of


> >the country and I thought it would be interesting to look up some

of the


> >history on them.

> >


>

> Neither do the traditions of chips, medallions, and

> birthdays/anniversaries. They are local traditions and not part of

A.A.


>

> Tommy in Baton Rouge

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



>
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 3279. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: the spirit of rotation

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2006 4:23:00 PM


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Abby G (whose Big Book story is "He Thought He Could Drink Like a

Gentleman") was an AA pioneer in Cleveland, OH.


He is credited with instituting the practice and principle of rotation

in stepping down from his position on the Cleveland Central Committee.


Cheers

Arthur
-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wilfried

antheunis

Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:24 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] the spirit of rotation


Can any one say when this saying: "The spirit of rotation" came

into


use"?

and is it and its usage documented?

thanks.

wil
Yahoo! Groups Links


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++++Message 3280. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: authorship of Chapter 10

From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/20/2006 7:05:00 PM


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If one just takes a written story published in the Big

Book as the only example of Hank's writing style it is

not doing diligent service to historical research.

There are several letters written by Hank and other

documents, including oral histories which give

authorship of that chapter (Employers) to Hank. I wish

I had a tape recorder at the time but Ruth told me

Hank was the author when I asked her at Stepping

Stones. Merton's research, my conversations with Ruth,

Clarence and others as well as my reading several

letters and other documents written by Hank lead me to

believe Hank was the author.


--- johnlawlee wrote:
> --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "ArtSheehan"

>

> wrote:

> >


> > Bill didn't write the chapter "To Employers" (just

> the first

> > paragraph). Hank P wrote the chapter.

> >


> > I don't get a sense that the Big Book was written

> in the manner or

> > with the intent that is often presumed in

> analyzing it (perhaps

> > over-analyzing it might be a better way of putting

> it).


> >

> > The member who asked the question is using a form

> of reasoning that

> > appears sincere, but flawed in its analytical

> gymnastics. It does

> > little more than open the door to what can be an

> endless amount of

> > speculation that serves more to distract rather

> than inform.

> >


> > Many Big Book chapters have a specific target

> audience (usually

> > denoted in the chapter titles). In this case it's

> employers.

> >

> > The underlying assumption that the importance of a



> sentence is

> somehow

> > enhanced or diminished by its appearance in an

> early or later part

> of

> > the book is a flawed assumption being treated as



> fact.

> >


> > The most popular, and perhaps important, portion

> of the Big Book,

> read

> > at many meetings comes from its 5th chapter "How



> It Works." Trust

> me,


> > there is no need to move this chapter further

> toward the beginning

> of

> > the book to emphasize its importance. It stands on



> its own content

> as


> > do all the other chapters.

> >


> > Cheers

> > Arthur

> >

> > -----Original Message-----



> > From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

> > [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

> Of Charlene C.

> > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:57 PM

> > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Crooked thinking

> >

> > it would be my guess that employers are more



> inclined to think in

> > intellectual terms than medical or spiritual.

> especially in that

> > time, when alcoholism was considered more of a

> moral dilema than a

> > spiritual mallody or terminal illness.

> >

> > just a thought.



> > C. Cook

> >


> > Hank Parkhurst is generally cited as the author of

>

> "To Employers" [Chapter 10 of Big Book]. I've always



> found that hard

> to believe, based on the contrast between the

> divergent styles of

> Chapter 10 and Hank's story in the First Edition.

> Hank's story, "The

> Unbeliever" is choppy, almost manic. It's filled

> with

> elipses,exclamations, etc. I've always suspected



> that Bill Wilson did

> the actual writing of Chapter 10, although Hank

> supplied many of the

> ideas for Chapter 10. Bill, Hank and Ruth Hock

> shared a small office

> in Newark when they put together the Big Book. I

> don't see any

> language in Hank's story which is similar to the

> content or style of

> Chapter 10. Bill was very generous in giving credit

> for the

> contributions of others; for instance, Bill referred

> to William James

> as a "founder" of AA, even though Professor James

> had been dead for

> decades when AA was founded.

> The authors of Chapter 10 are laying out a big order

> for employers.

> They're asking employers to read the Big Book and

> use it to "12 step"

> their employees. I don't see any information in

> Chapter 10 which is

> inconsistent with the first five chapters. The

> intended audience was

> different. It's not a different message.

> john lee

> member

> pittsburgh

> > trixiebellaa



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