Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page



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++++Message 3214. . . . . . . . . . . . Grapevine article on Mayflower phone

calls


From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/18/2006 5:52:00 PM
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Looking for a link or copy of an article or articles Bill wrote in the

RHS Memorial Grapevine edition of the Grapevine. These articles relate

to the phone calls Bill reports making from the Mayflower Hotel in

Akron.
I only need that one article (or articles), not access to all the

back copies of the Grapevine on line.
Please contact me at:
(mitchell_k_archivist at yahoo.com)
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++++Message 3215. . . . . . . . . . . . "Next Right Action" - Dr. Paul O.

From: Wendi Turner . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2006 1:44:00 PM


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There was a question as to where "The next right action" came from

in the


fellowship. I cannot give a certain response, but i do know the first place

i've seen it written.


In the stories in the back of the book, the wonderful story of Dr. Paul O.

published in the 3rd ed "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict" (BB3

439-452u)... and in the

4th ed as "Acceptance was the answer."


At the end of his story, i believe in the second to last paragraph... he

speaks


of knowing that at any given moment, God's will for him is simply the

"Next


right action."
Although this story is famous for it's slant on acceptance... my personal

favorite paragraph is the afore mentioned. That and where he discusses his

perspective in relation to his wife Max.
I am a part of the fellowship here in Southern California, Orange County. I

go

to several meeting where Dr. Paul O. was the founding member of the meeting.



His spirit lives on here and is felt constantly. My home group meeting is

where


he sat every Wednesday night for years.
I love and cherish his legacy of "next right action." Keeps me in

the now when

i choose to act.
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++++Message 3216. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: movie slang

From: johnlawlee . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2006 5:21:00 PM


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--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, jocis007@... wrote:

>

> do the right thing is from the Big Book. "Never avoid these



> responsibilities, but be sure you are doing the right thing if you

assume them." from

> chapter 7

>

That's a real stretch. You could make a better argument for the



language at the bottom of page 87 of Big Book, "...ask for the right

thought or action." The point is that "do the next right

thing" is a

popular cliche, heard on the street, in the media and, only

incidentally, in meetings since 1989. The first eleven chapters of Big

Book use the word "money" thirteen times, but I wouldn't claim

that the

cliche, "Show me the money" comes from the Big Book.

love+tolerance

john


>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
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++++Message 3217. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: movie slang--Do the [next] right

thing


From: johnlawlee . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2006 6:10:00 PM
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--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, jocis007@... wrote:

>

> do the right thing is from the Big Book. "Never avoid these



> responsibilities, but be sure you are doing the right thing if you

assume them." from

> chapter 7
I should have been more specific, and I promptly admit it. The

original source of the cliche is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hall of Fame

basketball player, political activist and buddy of Spike Lee. Mr.

Abdul-Jabbar's well-known quote was, "I try to do the right thing at

the right time." Spike Lee is a huge basketball fan and polical

activist. Spike modified Kareem's quote for his movie title, so that

the quote became "Do the right thing". The quote doesn't come from

Big Book or any AA source. It's just Polly-Parrot rhetoric used

liberally by corporate public relations officers, high school

civics teachers, group therapy moderators and recovery group members.

john

where the Monongahela meets the Allegheny, to form the Ohio


>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
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++++Message 3218. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Self-Support

From: Kimball . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/23/2006 9:35:00 PM


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I remember when I first started coming around (1976), the oldtimers said

"toss


in the cost of a drink" You could get a good stiff drink for a buck in

1976.


Can't do that now. If we still were tossing in the cost of a drink we might

still be self-supporting.

_________________________
A comment from the moderator:
I think this is useful. We need to pool our knowledge of early AA history

and


get a better idea of the reasoning that was used, back at that point in AA

history, for deciding that a dollar was a reasonable amount.


Just like Kimball, I have also heard old timers talking about it in the

context


of how much it cost for a drink.
What other reasoning did they actually use for deciding on the figure of a

dollar? I'm not talking about us just guessing about it, but would like to

hear

from people who remember old timers actually talking about it.


A dollar for a good stiff drink in 1976 sounds about right, and seventy-five

cents to a dollar for a beer.


What would it be now at a bar of similar calibre?
And what about the 1960's and 1950's and even earlier?
What was the price of a single beer at a bar at various points between 1939

and


the present? What was the price of a shot of whiskey, or a single mixed

drink,


as it continued to rise over that same period of time?
But I think we need to keep the focus on what we can actually know

historically.


Glenn Chesnut

South Bend, Indiana


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++++Message 3219. . . . . . . . . . . . First editon covers

From: dpmoose69 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/26/2006 9:13:00 AM


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Hi, Bill T. thought you might me able to help me out.
I am working with a member that is trying to restore a first edition

third printing of the big book. He has askied if I can replicate the

front cover and spine lettering and create a black and white image of

it. I am looking for either actual scans of the cover, the font name

or style, or anything that would help.
I appreciate any and all feedback.
dpdave@cox.net
dave h
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++++Message 3220. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "burning desire", Chants

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/26/2006 9:16:00 AM


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A couple of comments from Jim S. and Tommy H.

______________________________


Comment from: "Jim S."

(james.scarpine at verizon.net)


Arsonists have burning desires.

______________________________


Comment from: Tom Hickcox

(cometkazie1 at cox.net)


Responding to Message 3211 from

(ricktompkins at comcast.net), where Rick said:


{"It Works If You Work It!" is part of our ever-longer chants

that follow a meeting closing... From my own experience, this

"gospel shout" comes from treatment centers and nowhere else,

and it took hold in AA in the early 1990s.}


The chants are moving, and are now starting to occur, not

just at the end, but also to "How It Works" at the beginning.

A couple of years ago people started chanting the last line

of How It Works, "God could and would, if He were sought,"

to the immense annoyance of a number of people. My wife, who

moved here from NYC last year said the chant is common there.

I think treatment centers started it to see who was still

awake.
Rick (who lives in Illinois) also said:


{"Does anyone have a 'burning desire' to share" or

"to add more thoughts" is a normal question a meeting

chair can ask before closing an AA meeting. I still

hear it a lot.}


More than once a chair has said, "People with burning

desires need to see their urologist."


Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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++++Message 3221. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O.

From: Charlene C. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/26/2006 9:46:00 AM


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From: "Charlene C."

(ccp28para4 at yahoo.com)


IIdog wrote: (IIdog at prodigy.net)

##I am looking for information on Dr. Paul Oehlinger. His

story is in the third and fourth edition of the Big Book.

The same story with different titles. I appreciate any

information on this.

Thank you,

Jane B.##
You can listen to Dr. Paul O.'s talk on-line. Go to

xa-speakers (The Lights Are On) at


http://www.xa-speakers.org/
then to aa-alcoholics anonymous, then

to single speakers. Dr. Paul's is on page 24.


C. Cook

______________________________


From: Tammy Cook

(tomatolcook at yahoo.com)


Wendi Turner wrote:

(wenditurner at earthlink.net)

##In the stories in the back of the book, the wonderful story

of Dr. Paul O. published in the 3rd ed "Doctor, Alcoholic,

Addict" (BB3 439-452u)... and in the 4th ed as "Acceptance

was the answer." At the end of his story, i believe in the

second to last paragraph... he speaks of knowing that at any

given moment, God's will for him is simply the "Next right

action."##


I like the saying too Wendi. It helped me to not

feel so overwhelmed in the beginning...still helps sometimes too.

______________________________
From: "Joe Nugent"

(joe-gent at sympatico.ca)


Dr. Paul O. was what I call an elder statesman.
Joe
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++++Message 3222. . . . . . . . . . . . History and Archives Gathering June 24

2006


From: jlobdell54 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/24/2006 9:40:00 AM
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There will be a Multi-District History and Archives

Gathering on June 24 2006 location to be negotiated

but between Harrisburg PA and Lebanon PA, from about

8:30 a.m. to about 3:30 p.m.


This will be like the Gatherings held in Summerdale PA

April 2003 and Elizabethtown PA June 2004. (We skipped

a year for the International.)
We have invited AA historians Glenn C. and Mitch K.
We are also inviting other historians, and hope to

have exhibits from the Philadelphia Intergroup Archives,

the Maryland Archives, and the Northern New Jersey

Archives, at least, along with a speaker from GSO.


We expect Chet H. (DLD 4/4/49) to be in attendance,

and hope for other 50+ oldtimers.


No charge for attending. Keep the date free if you can,

and come if you can.


-- Jared Lobdell

__________________________________


A note from the moderator:
At the very beginning, AA developed around two major

centers:
(1) Akron, Cleveland, and that area of the

upper midwest clustering around the western Great Lakes.
(2) That area on the eastern seaboard which had New

York City at its center, but involved people from that

entire part of the eastern seaboard.
Eastern Pennsylvania, Maryland, and New Jersey were

all part of that early eastern AA center, so Jared's

history and archives gathering should be of more than

simply regional interest, on those grounds alone.


Also Mitchell K. is our expert on early Cleveland AA,

which was a key part of the other early AA center.


Glenn C., South Bend, Indiana

(see map at http://hindsfoot.org/contact.html)


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++++Message 3223. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First edition covers

From: Rob . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/27/2006 10:38:00 PM


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The best place I've found to get Big Book dust

jackets is http://www.dustjackets.org/. They have

replica dust jackets for all printings of the

first, second, and third edition.


Rob

______________________________


From: Cindy Miller

(cm53 at earthlink.net)


This is exactly the kind of work that Bob W. (archivist from

Little Rock, Arkansas) is involved in...


I've misplaced his contact info. Can anyone else provide it?
My email address is (cm53 at earthlink.net)
-cm

______________________________


From: "Gallery Photography"

(gallery5 at mindspring.com)


If it were me, I wouldn't touch it. If he wants a good usable

book, go buy a new one. Take that book and put it in a glass

box.
Rotax Steve
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++++Message 3224. . . . . . . . . . . . Ester and the Texas Preamble

From: silkworthdotnet . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/27/2006 2:54:00 PM


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Grapevine, February, 2001
Texas Preamble:
A few months after the Grapevine published the Preamble in June,

1947, Ollie L., Dick F., and Searcy W. decided to beef it up for the

drunks in Texas. "We worked on it, passed it around, and agreed on

this version, " says Searcy W. "It's now read by groups throughout

the state." It works for Searcy. He's been sober 54 years.
For all who would be interested in it:
-------------------------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their

experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve

their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
We are gathered here because we are faced with the fact that we are

powerless over alcohol, and are unable to do anything about it

without the help of a Power greater than ourselves.
We feel each person's religious convictions, if any, are his own

affair, and the simple purpose of the program of AA is to show what

may be done to enlist the aid of a Power greater than ourselves,

regardless of what our individual conception of that Power may be.


In order to form a habit of depending upon and referring all we do to

that Power, we must first apply ourselves with some diligence, but

repetition confirms and strengthens this habit, then faith comes

naturally.


We have all come to know that as alcoholics we are suffering from a

serious disease for which medicine has no cure. Our condition may be

the result of an allergic reaction to alcohol which makes it

impossible for us to drink in moderation. This condition has never,

by any treatment with which we are familiar, been permanently cured.

The only relief we have to offer is absolute abstinence - a second

meaning of AA.
There are no dues or fees. The only requirement is an honest desire

to stop drinking. Each member is a person with an acknowledged

alcoholic problem who has found the key to abstinence from day to day

by adhering to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. The moment he

resumes drinking he loses all status as a member of AA. His

reinstatement is automatic, however, when he again fulfills the sole

requirement for membership - an honest desire to quit drinking.
Not being reformers we offer our experience only to those who want

it. AA is not interested in sobering up drunks who are seeking only

temporary sobriety. We have a way out on which we can absolutely

agree and in which we join in harmonious action. Rarely have we seen

a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not

recover are those who will not or cannot lend themselves to this

simple program-- usually men and women who are incapable of being

honest with themselves. You may like this Program or you many not,

but the fact remains that is works.. and we believe it is our only

chance to recover.


There is a vast amount of fun included in the AA fellowship. Some

people may be shocked at our apparent worldliness and levity, but

just underneath there is a deadly earnestness and a full realization

that we must put first things firs. With each of us the first thing

is our alcoholic problem. Faith must work twenty-four hours a day in

and through us, or we perish.


with gratitude,

Jim M
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++++Message 3225. . . . . . . . . . . . stepping stones

From: Rob White . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/1/2006 3:51:00 PM


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I just got back from a visit to Stepping Stones in Bedford Falls NY (just

above


NYC) where Bill and Lois lived from 1941 on.

It is well worth a visit from anyone even slightly interested in AA history.


They have done a marvelous job of keeping it in exactly the same condition

it

was when Bill and lois lived there (Lois' glasses are where she left them in



the

kitchen).


What a treasure trove of history!
You can sit at the kitchen table that Ebby and Bill sat at in Clinton street

when Bill pushed a drink over to him and Ebby announced " I got

religion".

You can stand in the living room where Marty Mann and Bill formed Council

that

would become the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence .



You can sit at the desk where Bill wrote the Big Book and the 12 and 12.

You can see the map filled with stick pins where Bill measured the progress

of

new groups across the country.



You can sit and gaze out the window that he looked out when contemplating

how he


would respond to the hundreds of questions

coming in from all over the country about how to start a meeting etc.


The best part - its largely undiscovered by the masses. You can get a quiet

visit with a volunteer tour guide and take your time to savor each part.


It is the most important collection of AA artifacts and history anywhere.
I have been to East Dorset (birthplace, childhood home, gravesite)

I have been to Akron. (Dr Bob's house, Mayflower Hotel)

Bedford Falls is the Mother Lode.
www.steppingstones.org
they are having a big picnic on June 3 if you like a crowd,

but I recommend you go when its quiet and no one else is there.


Rob White

Baltimore

410 328 8549
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++++Message 3226. . . . . . . . . . . . Significant March Dates in A.A.

History


From: chesbayman56 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/2/2006 7:00:00 AM
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March 1936 - AA had 10 members staying sober. At end of 1936 A.A.

had 15 members.

March-May 1938 - Bill begins writing the book Alcoholics Anonymous.

Works Publishing Inc established to support writing and printing of

the book.

March 1940 - Mort J. came to LA from Denver; started custom of

reading Chapter 5 Big Book at Cecil group.

March 1941 - Second printing of Big Book.

March 1941 - 1st Prison AA Group formed at San Quentin.

March 1946 - The March of Time film is produced by NY AA office.

March 1949 - Dr. Bob considers idea of AA conference premature.

March 1951 - American Weekly publishes memorial article for Dr. Bob.

March 1, 1939 - Readers Digest fails to write article on AA.

March 1, 1941 - Jack Alexander's Saturday Evening Post article

published and membership jumped from 2,000 to 8,000 by years end.

March 3 1947 - Nell Wing started work at Alcoholic Foundation 415

Lexington Avenue.

March 4, 1891 - Lois W is born.

March 5, 1945 - Time Magazine reports Detroit radio broadcasts of AA

members. (Archie T?)

March 7, 1940 -- Bill and Lois visited the Philadelphia AA group.

March 7, 1941 -- Boston newspaper reported that any drunk who wanted

to get well was more than welcome at the AA meeting at 115 Newbury

St., at 8 PM Wednesdays.

March 9, 1941 - Wichita Beacon reports AA member from NY who wants

to form a group in Wichita.

March 10, 1944 - New York Intergroup was established.

March 11, 1949 - The Calix Society, an association of Roman Catholic

alcoholics who are maintaining their sobriety through participation

in Alcoholics Anonymous, was formed in Minneapolis by five Catholic

AA members.

March 14, - South Orange, NJ, AA group held an anniversary dinner

with Bill W as guest speaker

March 15, 1941 - 1st AA group formed in New Haven, Connecticut. Not

reported in paper until Oct 1, 1941.

March 16, 1940 - Alcoholic Foundation and Works Publishing move from

Newark to 30 Vesey St in lower Manhattan. First headquarters of our

own.


March 21, 1881 - Anne R, Dr Bobs wife, is born.

March 21 1966 - Ebby dies.

March 22, 1951 - Dr William Duncan Silkworth dies at Towns Hospital.

March 22, 1984 - Clarence S, "Home Brewmeister", dies.

March 23, 1936 - Bill and Lois visit Fitz M, "Our Southern

Friend", in

Maryland.

March 25, 1898 -- Jim B ("The Vicious Cycle") was born.

March 25, 2005 - Nancy Olson, Founder of AAHL- See Memorial at:

http://hindsfoot.org/nomem1.html

March 29, 1943 -- The Charleston Mail, WV, reported on Bill W's talk

at St. John's Parish House.

March 31, 1947 - 1st AA group formed in London, England.
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++++Message 3227. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Paul O.

From: Executive Editor . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/2/2006 1:13:00 PM


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Dr. Paul commented on the title of the story when interviewed in the

Grapevine. The story was originally published in the GV as "Bronze

Moccasins" and changed when reprinted in the Big Book. The interview is

in

the GV's Digital Archive and in The Best of Grapevine.



Cordially,

Robin Bromley


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++++Message 3228. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O.

From: Diz Titcher . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/28/2006 4:26:00 PM


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Dr. Paul has written a few books, Contact Sabrina Publishing at 800-booklog

in Laguna Miguel, CA.

Diz T.
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++++Message 3229. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O.

From: Kimball . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/28/2006 6:47:00 PM


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Charlene, I met Dr Paul in Ogden Utah in the early 90s. The story (much

shorter) was originally titled the Bronze Moccasins and ran in the

Grapevine.

It was later expanded for inclusion to the Big Book, and someone (possibly a

Grapevine editor) renamed the story Doctor, Alcoholic, Adict. Paul didn't

mind


at first, but as time passed, some of our fellowship would point to the

title of


his story and say things like "it talks about drugs in the Big

Book" or "you

have to let me talk about drugs, it's in the book." That botherd him.

Paul did


not want the title of his story to be a source of controversy. It was

renamed


in the fourth editon to "Acceptance was the Answer."
I was at a area workshop when the first box of fourth edition Big Books came

to

town and were uncrated. Everyone got a copy. It didn't take long for people



to

realize that their favorite passage in the story "Acceptance was the

Answer" was

moved from 449 to 417. I could almost hear a cry from coast to coast.

Imagine,

refusing to buy the 4th edition because you could not accept the page change

of

your favorite passage on Acceptance. A paradox of twisted thinking.


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++++Message 3230. . . . . . . . . . . . Price of things since 1935...

From: Charlie C . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/1/2006 3:05:00 PM


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Hi, not much of an AA historian here, although I am learning a lot from this

site, but as a reference librarian I would suggest an excellent resource for

information re the question of a dollar in the basket and prices of things

would


be "The Value of a dollar: 1860-1999," a reference book most

academic and larger

public libraries would have.
For example, in the 1935-1939 section, a pound of coffee was 26 cents. In

the 1940-44 section it is noted that a fifth of Seagrams blended whiskey was

$2.70 (coffee was cheaper actually, 24 cents a lb.) 1945-49, coffee was up

to 31


cents a lb. In 1950-

54, coffee was 77 cents a lb., 93 cents in 1955-59...


If we take the late '60s as a benchmark, since that is apparently how long

the buck in the basket has been the stock donation, coffee had actually

dropped,

to 85 cents a lb. A keypunch operator might make $85 a week, or a typist

$90. A

6 pack of Shlitz was 99 cents, and, well, I could go on but I won't ;-)


Obviously the pegging of the standard donation at a dollar for so long is

totally in defiance of economic common sense when you think of inflation. A

sponsee of mine has a nice solution to this - he gets $2 bills at the bank,

expressly to make his donation with in meetings!


"Keep on truckin"

Michael Corbett, BCHS class of '74

______________________________
From the moderator:
It seems to me that, on the basis of Michael Corbett's and Tom White's and

Bruce


Lallier's information, "a dollar in the basket" goes back to the

late 1960's or

early 1970's. This was in fact roughly the cost of a mixed drink at a good

bar


at that time. If we compare the cost of beer and shots of whiskey and

bottles


of decent liquor then, with prices now, it seems to me that 3 to 4 dollars

in

the basket would be the appropriate amount. Of course, if somebody wants to



fine tune it, and count out exactly $3.67 (or something like that) into the

basket, I suppose that person could do so.


Putting just small change into the basket, as they did in the 1930's, 40's,

and


50's would have made sense too, if we used the price of a drink as the

standard.

So it looks like the place where U.S. members started living in economic

fantasy


was during the 1980's (and all the way down to the present).
This is something which is much more important for AA's survival than

worrying


about chants at the end of meetings, or minor changes in the Big Book, or a

lot


of the other things like that.
Among other things, it has forced the New York GSO to start functioning as a

profit making publishing business (with all the distortions this has

produced)

because the membership has forgotten that "fully self supporting,

declining

outside contributions" means that we are supposed to come up with the

money to

support the New York office, not force it to sell books in order to survive.


And this also applies to intergroup offices and other necessary things.
Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)

______________________________


From: Tom White
Glenn and Kimball:

I think I can dredge up a few memories of drinking in the 50s. I

sobered up in 59. "Nice" bars or "lounges" in NYC were

one thing, but

if you were drinking on the cheap, which I usually did, a glass (not

a bottle) of tap beer was still a dime at a White Rose in NYC in 59,

I'm pretty sure, and it had been right through my 13 years of state-

side drinking after I got home from the Navy in 46. I think a bottle

may have been 35 cents (again, cheap bars or grocery stores). You

could get a shot of bar whiskey, a rye like White Feathers, for a

quarter (or could it have been 50 cents?). Prices went up from there

as you went "uptown," but it seems to me that in my first AA

meetings

coins were still quite acceptable. I don't remember when the thing

became a standard one buck, but it sure has been hard to budge it

away from that. The price of a drink seems to have been the control,

after all, except that now it ought to be seen as more than a buck.

But then we have Bill's remark (was it not?) that sober alcoholics

are tighter than the bark on a tree. In our quite small group in

Odessa, Texas, we do seem to have the members trained to do $2.00.

Tom White
Kimball wrote:
I remember when I first started coming around (1976), the oldtimers

said "toss in the cost of a drink" You could get a good stiff

drink for a buck in 1976.

______________________________


From: "Bruce Lallier"
When I came in in 71 we put a quarter in, seems like it went

from a quarter to a dollar without stopping in between. I also

heard some of the oldtimes at that time saying it was a one

time said "if you have it put it in, if you need it take it

out." Wonder how that would go over today.
Bruce, a Connecticut transplant in Conneaut lake Pa

______________________________


From: John Lee
Followup to Glenn:

When talking about the Big Book at a meeting, I sometimes

indicate to the newcomers that they can get one "for the

price of a double margarita."


I agree with your reminders to supply historical evidence

on this board, not just conjecture or associations. Not

just "my sponsor told me or my therapist told me."
Isn't there something in Pass It On about how Bill

would pass the hat at Clinton Street, and never get

aper money [only change]?
john lee

member


pittsburgh
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++++Message 3231. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O.

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/6/2006 10:10:00 AM


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At 12:13 3/2/2006 , Robin Bromley wrote:
>Dr. Paul commented on the title of the story when interviewed in the

>Grapevine. The story was originally published in the GV as "Bronze

>Moccasins" and changed when reprinted in the Big Book. The

interview is in

>the GV's Digital Archive and in The Best of Grapevine.

>Cordially,


I got out my copy of the May 1975 Grapevine and compared the story

"Bronzed


Moccasins" to the story "Doctor, Addict, Alcoholic" in the

Third Edition

Big Book. [Note the correct title of the story.]
There are the same number of paragraphs and the first sentence of each

paragraph is the same in both volumes.


What changes, except the title for the story in the Four Edition are you

referring to?


I found an interview of him in the July 2001 GV but it doesn't mention the

original title of the article. What article are you referring to?


I like the original title much better than the current one, but that is

just my two cents.


Tommy H in Baton Rouge
.
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++++Message 3232. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: stepping stones

From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/6/2006 8:44:00 PM


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Just a couple of points....
When I visited with Lois about 3 months before she

passed on there were no glasses in the kitchen just as

there were no glasses in the kitchen when I visited

there soon after she passed on.


Maybe I'm losing my memory (I do know my short-term is

severely damaged) but can someone refresh it about

Bill and Marty starting what was to become the National

Council in the livingroom


As far as "THE" table.... it has been reported that

there are a few "THE" tables where Bill and Ebby met.


As far as the desk in the study on the hill being

"THE" desk where the Big Book was written... I've sat

at that desk many a time and it wouldn't fit in the

office in the Newark office and I someone will have to

fill me in if BandL stored the Clinton St. furniture or

took it with them on all their moves.


Another thing.... it cannot be classified as "It is

the most important collection of AA artifacts

> and history anywhere."
I'm tickled pink that you enjoyed yourself so much at

Stepping Stones. I wish more members of the Fellowship

would have your interest in our history. However... we

must temper historical fact with legend. Hey, I may be

totally off base...
> I just got back from a visit to Stepping Stones in

> Bedford Falls NY (just above NYC) where Bill and

> Lois lived from 1941 on.

> It is well worth a visit from anyone even slightly

> interested in AA history.

>

> They have done a marvelous job of keeping it in



> exactly the same condition it was when Bill and lois

> lived there (Lois' glasses are where she left them

> in the kitchen).

>

> What a treasure trove of history!



>

> You can sit at the kitchen table that Ebby and Bill

> sat at in Clinton street when Bill pushed a drink

> over to him and Ebby announced " I got religion".

> You can stand in the living room where Marty Mann

> and Bill formed Council that would become the

> National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence .

> You can sit at the desk where Bill wrote the Big

> Book and the 12 and 12.

> You can see the map filled with stick pins where

> Bill measured the progress of new groups across the

> country.

> You can sit and gaze out the window that he looked

> out when contemplating how he would respond to the

> hundreds of questions

> coming in from all over the country about how to

> start a meeting etc.

>

> The best part - its largely undiscovered by the



> masses. You can get a quiet visit with a volunteer

> tour guide and take your time to savor each part.

>

> It is the most important collection of AA artifacts



> and history anywhere.

>

> I have been to East Dorset (birthplace, childhood



> home, gravesite)

> I have been to Akron. (Dr Bob's house, Mayflower

> Hotel)

> Bedford Falls is the Mother Lode.

>

> www.steppingstones.org



>

> they are having a big picnic on June 3 if you like a

> crowd,

> but I recommend you go when its quiet and no one

> else is there.

>

> Rob White



> Baltimore

> 410 328 8549

>

>

>



>

>
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++++Message 3233. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: stepping stones

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/6/2006 10:15:00 AM


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At 14:51 3/1/2006 , Rob White wrote:
>I just got back from a visit to Stepping Stones in Bedford Falls NY

(just


>above NYC) where Bill and Lois lived from 1941 on.

>It is well worth a visit from anyone even slightly interested in AA

history.
I believe the name of the town is Bedford Hills.
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
.
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++++Message 3234. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: stepping stones

From: Sally Brown . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/7/2006 1:42:00 PM


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Dave and I never heard that discussions about Marty's founding the National

Council on Alcoholism started at Stepping Stones. Wherever Marty and Bill

talked, whether at the AA office, over lunch, or out at Stepping Stones - or

all three - Marty certainly tossed around her plans with Bill and Lois since

Bill was her AA sponsor and she and the Wilsons were close personal friends.

However, we do know that he threw cold water on the whole idea, saying she

was unqualified for such a venture. She went ahead, anyway, since she was

being encouraged by other strong advisers, and besides was being driven by a

dream she had multiple gifts for fulfilling. Later, of course, Bill and Dr

Bob both joined her Advisory Board for a while. And as Marty's vision became

a successful reality over the decades, Bill changed his mind and

enthusiastically supported her efforts and achievements in dramatically

expanding AA's membership and influence as well as in educating our country

as a whole about alcoholism.


Marty's biography (see below) contains many hitherto unreported facts about

AA history. Dave and I tried hard to write only what could be verified and

attributed to sources. We are very grateful to other writers of AA and

recovery history before us who set high historical standards.


Shalom - Sally
Rev Sally Brown coauthor: A Biography of

Mrs. Marty Mann

Board Certified Clinical Chaplain The First Lady of Alcoholics

Anonymous

United Church of Christ
www.sallyanddavidbrown.com

1470 Sand Hill Road, 309

Palo Alto, CA 94304

Phone/Fax: 650 325 5258

Email: rev.sally@att.net
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++++Message 3235. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: stepping stones

From: mertonmm3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/7/2006 7:22:00 PM


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--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitchell K."

wrote:

>

>> Just a couple of points....



>

someone will have to

> fill me in if BandL stored the Clinton St. furniture or

> took it with them on all their moves.


Hi Mitch,
We are ever seeking the details. According to the diary they put the

furniture into storage when they left 182. Recall that they moved

directly into the Parkhurst 344 N. Fullerton, Montclair home from

there and for the next six or seven Sundays the regular meeting was

held there begining on May 14, 1939 if my memory is correct. At that

time there was only one meeting at most per night for the entire

Eastern United States. The meetings began at 4:00 and went most of the

night. They rotated speakers for the first portion according to Jim

Burwell who was probably living at Hank and Kathleen's home as well at

that time. They were mostly quite broke from the book which had just

arrived in final form the month before. However these were dinner

meetings with Herb T. paying for a "big spread". The wive's always

attended these along with their spouse's.
At that meeting they voted in the Bill and Lois Home replacement fund

and each pledged different amounts of which none of them paid more

than a few months. They wrote up a document with this information

which is in the GSO archives. Marty was still a Blythewood Sanatarium

patient and she took the train to the meeting from CT. to NJ. (Bill

and Lois were doing an errand when they voted this Home Replacement

Fund in - they arrived shortly thereafter and Lois wrote in her diary

that they were thrilled.


Very shortly thereafter Hank and Kathleen became estranged, probably

after Kathleen found out about his proposal to Ruth. Hank moved to

East Orange, 50 Beech St. I believe. His mail went to West Orange. By

June 21st Kathleen was moving out. And Lois helped her move her

furniture to a specifically named individuals house who I'd have to

look up. In her long diary entry that day she never said a word about

her own furniture.
Immediately they were offered the Green pond bungalow by the family of

Horace C. (note there was a Horace G. member too at that time.) His

family owned the mammouth international shipping firm of Moore

McCormick if I remember correctly. Green Pond was in the remote

wilderness and Lois loved it. The diary entries from that time, many

of which are in LR, are the longest and happiest of that first 5 year

period.
LR leaves you with the impression that when they left there shortly

thereafter it was for good. In fact, it was only rented for a very

short time and they lived there often during the next few years

gradually moving into the NYC clubhouse when that became an option.

Much time was spent with Bob and Mag V. at their farmhouse in Bog

Hollw near Monsey, NY. They both seemed more drawn to the country than

the city. SS is certainly that.
The Best to You and Your Wife Mitch,

-merton
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++++Message 3236. . . . . . . . . . . . Stepping Stones, Bedford Hills

From: rriley9945@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/7/2006 12:59:00 AM


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From: Tommy H. in Baton Rouge, in Message 3233:
Stepping Stones is in Bedford Hills, not Bedford Falls.

______________________________


From: rriley9945@aol.com
For you movie fans, Bedford Falls is the name of the

town in the holiday classic It's a Wonderful Life

starring James Stewart.

______________________________


From: "johnlawlee"
The town is Bedford Hills, not Bedford Falls. The latter is the

mythical setting for the Jimmy Stewart classic movie, "It's a

Wonderful Life." Incidently, Bill and Lois' house is in Katonah,

not Bedford Hills. Kotonah is the next town. The postal addresses

must have changed since Bill lived there. I searched the streets of

Bedford Hills for an hour, looking for the house. It's not there.

I received a nice private tour from a staff member.
john lee

pittsburgh


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++++Message 3237. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O.

From: Cloydg . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/7/2006 9:01:00 AM


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In the AA Archives that's accessable over the Internet, Dr. Paul did an

interview. He explained where he was at that time in his life and how he

felt

about his article, "Bronze Moccasins". Then he speaks about his



story being

included into the BB under the title, "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict",

and the

ensuing problems he encountered. My question is: Does the AA interview



appear

to say that in his view, alcoholics can and do become dually addicted but

addicts seldom become alcoholic?" Also, did it appear to anyone else

that he


was attempting to make an apology to AA for writing his article?
In love and service, Clyde G.
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++++Message 3238. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Paul O. on acceptance

From: Cheryl F . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/7/2006 11:06:00 AM


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I have heard that Dr. Paul O. did not like the idea of people in the program

referring to the one paragraph about acceptance because it was take out of

context. Does anyone know what he has actually said about that?
Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
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++++Message 3239. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Price of things since 1935...

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/7/2006 4:46:00 PM


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Care should be exercised in defining the basis used for comparing

dollar amounts over time, particularly in considering the long-term

effects of inflation.
It is useful to convert past dollar amounts to show the equivalent

buying power in current dollars. This is easily accomplished by using

Consumer Price Index (CPI) conversion factors. CPI conversion data can

be obtained on-line from Professor Robert C Sahr, Political Science

Dept, Oregon State U, Corvalis
http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/pol_sci/fac/sahr/cv2005.pdf
The "quantity" of past dollars amounts can erroneously be viewed

as

the "value" of past dollar amounts. An amount expressed in 1940



dollars can erroneously be viewed as less expensive than 2005 dollars

when in fact the 1940 value is substantially more expensive.


Consider the $3.50 selling price of the Big Book when it was first

published in April 1939. $3.50 in 1939 dollars would be the equivalent

value of $49.30 in 2005 dollars. The Big Book was a rather expensive

book for its time. That's the reason it was printed on such large and

thick paper and got the name "Big Book" (the idea was to convince

the


alcoholics that they were getting their money's worth).
The Summer/Fall 2005 catalog of Conference-approved literature shows

that a hard cover Big Book can be purchased for $6. You can also

erroneously conclude that this is almost twice the cost of what the

Big Book sold for in 1939. In fact the 2005 Big Book price actually

represents only 12% of what a Big Book sold for in 1939 (i.e. a nearly

90% price reduction).


As best as I can determine, groups and members were first asked to

make direct contributions to what is today GSO in March 1941 when Jack

Alexander's Saturday Evening Post article was published. The publicity

caused 1941 membership to jump from around 2,000 to 8,000. The article

led to over 6,000 appeals for help to be mailed to the NY Office to

handle. The NY office asked groups to donate $1 ($13.33 in 2005

dollars) per member, per year, for support of the office. This began

the practice of financing the NY office operations from group

donations (re the Service Manual, page S7).
Several years ago some posters and flyers were distributed asking

members to consider donating $2, instead of $1, in the 7th Tradition

collections at meetings. I think this is a touchy issue since there

are a number of members who just can't afford to do so. It should be

left up to each member to decide for themselves. My appeal would be

for each member to just try to donate something no matter how small.

The same goes for each group trying to donate to their Central Office,

District, Area and GSO - just try to donate something no matter how

small (it does have a tendency to add up over time).
Cheers

Arthur
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++++Message 3240. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W.''s 1966 Letter

From: Carter Elliott . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/8/2006 6:27:00 AM


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As Bill Sees It contains thirty-one entries sourced to "Letter,

1966". Do we

know if this letter was a single, philosophical essay or letters collected

from


his general correspondence?
Carter E.; Blacksburg BA
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++++Message 3241. . . . . . . . . . . . Moderator gone March 11-17

From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2006 12:15:00 PM


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The moderator will not be available from Saturday March 11 to Friday March

17.


If you could hang onto your messages until the 17th, it would be greatly

appreciated.


Glenn Chesnut, Moderator

South Bend, Indiana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3242. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O. on acceptance

From: JNP in Maine . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2006 12:09:00 PM


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Hi,

Someone once told me that in a conversation with Dr Paul he stated that

acceptance was not the answefr and he had made that statement before he had

taken the steps as they were laid out in the Big Book


Joe Pet

Orono, Maine


Cheryl F wrote:

I have heard that Dr. Paul O. did not like the idea of people in the program

referring to the one paragraph about acceptance because it was take out of

context. Does anyone know what he has actually said about that?


Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3243. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O. on acceptance

From: Azor521@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2006 10:10:00 AM


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In a message dated 3/10/06 8:49:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

learning3legacies@cox.net writes:


paragraph about acceptance
I met Dr. Paul O. at a speaker meeting in Modesto, CA @ 1993 and while we

were at dinner he made it clear he didn't get acceptance out of the blue. He

had to work for it and suggested we read his entire story to get the full

perspective of his life in recovery to that point.

He and his wife Max seemed like loving and caring people grateful for their

recovery.

Love and Huggs to all............ Floyd J
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++++Message 3244. . . . . . . . . . . . Doctor Bob''s nightmare

From: Rob . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2006 3:32:00 PM


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hi everyone. I was reading Dr. Bob's nightmare in my 3rd edition and

it said As I write nearly six years have passed. This is in my 2nd

printing. I also have a 17th printing and it staes nearly four years

have passed as also does my fouth editions. Does anyone know where

this changed? It would be most appreciated.
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++++Message 3245. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Paul O. on acceptance

From: wilfried antheunis . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2006 2:19:00 PM


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I will only quote part of the article in the July 1995 Grapevine:

GV: Is there anything you regret having written in your story?


Dr. Paul: Well, I must say I'm really surprised at the number of people who

come up to me and ask me confidentially if what they've heard on the very

best

authority - usually from their sponsor - is true: that there are things in



my

story I want to change, or that I regret having written it, or that I want

to

take it out because it says so much about drugs, or that I've completely



changed

my mind that AA is the answer or even that acceptance is the answer. I've

also

heard - on the best authority. -that I've died or gotten drunk or on pills.



The

latest one was that my wife Max died and that I got so depressed I got

drunk.

So, is there anything I'd like to change? No. I believe what I said more now



than when I wrote it.
This was taken out of context- the whole article should be available in the

Grapevine digital archives.


wil
----- Original Message -----

From: Cheryl F

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:06 AM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Dr. Paul O. on acceptance
I have heard that Dr. Paul O. did not like the idea of people in the program

referring to the one paragraph about acceptance because it was take out of

context. Does anyone know what he has actually said about that?
Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3246. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Dr. Paul O. on acceptance

From: Charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2006 8:42:00 PM


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Hello Group
Living in Southern California I was able to listen to Dr Paul often. He

always spoke in my area at least 3 or 4 times a year. On several occasions

I Heard him say he thought there other things in his story that was just as

important as that one paragraph. For instance he thought the part about him

and his wife Max getting well together in AA was better than that paragraph.

Personally I like the next to the last paragraph which reads:

"Acceptance

is the key to my relationship with God today. I never just sit and do

nothing while waiting for Him to tell me what to do. Rather, I do whatever

is in front of me to be done, and I leave the results up to Him; however it

turns out, that's Gods will for me." I believe of all the speakers I

have


been able to listen to from So Cal over the past 15 years I miss hearing Dr

Paul the most.

Thanks
Charles from California
-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl F

Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:07 AM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Dr. Paul O. on acceptance


I have heard that Dr. Paul O. did not like the idea of people in the program

referring to the one paragraph about acceptance because it was take out of

context. Does anyone know what he has actually said about that?
Grateful so I serve,
Cheryl F
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 3247. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Price of things since 1935...

From: Arkie Koehl . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/10/2006 1:40:00 PM


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My personal experience has been that while in treatment I was encouraged to

participate in AA meetings, including putting money in the basket.

The centre I went through provides rooms and encourages meetings and has

forgone


collecting rent so a meeting can get off the ground and become established.
Fiona D
On Mar 7, 2006, at 11:46, ArtSheehan wrote:
> Several years ago some posters and flyers were distributed asking

> members to consider donating $2, instead of $1, in the 7th Tradition

> collections at meetings. I think this is a touchy issue since there

> are a number of members who just can't afford to do so. It should be

> left up to each member to decide for themselves. My appeal would be

> for each member to just try to donate something no matter how small.


Is there, to anyone's knowledge, a protocol on donations from

treatment center in-patients sent to AA meetings? I'm guessing there

is no right way to handle the awkward fact that so many patients are

sent to our meetings by profit-making treatment centers yet put

nothing in the basket. Of course the patient should not be expected

to contribute, but the "provider" is charging the patient or the

state money for the treatment and using AA as a free resource.
Arkie
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++++Message 3248. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Price of things since 1935...

From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/13/2006 7:16:00 PM


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In meetings around here, I've noticed the chairperson stating that

newcomers, visitors and those currently in a hospital or treatment center

(in patient), need not contribute.
Jon (Raleigh)

9/9/82
> From: Arkie Koehl

> Reply-To:

> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:40:48 -1000

> To:

> Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Price of things since 1935...

>

> My personal experience has been that while in treatment I was



encouraged to

> participate in AA meetings, including putting money in the basket.

> The centre I went through provides rooms and encourages meetings and

has


> forgone collecting rent so a meeting can get off the ground and become

> established.

>

> Fiona D



>

>

> On Mar 7, 2006, at 11:46, ArtSheehan wrote:



>

>> Several years ago some posters and flyers were distributed asking

>> members to consider donating $2, instead of $1, in the 7th

Tradition

>> collections at meetings. I think this is a touchy issue since there

>> are a number of members who just can't afford to do so. It should

be

>> left up to each member to decide for themselves. My appeal would be



>> for each member to just try to donate something no matter how

small.


>

> Is there, to anyone's knowledge, a protocol on donations from

> treatment center in-patients sent to AA meetings? I'm guessing there

> is no right way to handle the awkward fact that so many patients are

> sent to our meetings by profit-making treatment centers yet put

> nothing in the basket. Of course the patient should not be expected

> to contribute, but the "provider" is charging the patient or

the


> state money for the treatment and using AA as a free resource.

>

> Arkie



>

>

>



>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links



>

>

>



>

>

>



>
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++++Message 3249. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Doctor Bob''s nightmare

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/13/2006 9:04:00 PM


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At 14:32 3/10/2006 , Rob wrote:
>hi everyone. I was reading Dr. Bob's nightmare in my 3rd edition and

>it said As I write nearly six years have passed. This is in my 2nd

>printing. I also have a 17th printing and it staes nearly four years

>have passed as also does my fouth editions. Does anyone know where

>this changed? It would be most appreciated.
I checked my Third Editions and printings number 1 thru 8 state "six

years"


and 9 on state "four years." This is on p. 180.
I checked several Second Editions and they all said "six years" as

did the


two First Editions I have, but the statement was on p. 192 of the Firsts.
The question of why this change was effected was discussed at some point in

the recent past on our list. I remember reading it but am not confident

enough in my memory to quote and I can't find the post.
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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++++Message 3250. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Doctor Bob''s nightmare

From: Carolyn W . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/13/2006 10:34:00 PM


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Mark,
I looked in my copy of the 3rd edition of the BB. and it says ' four years

'.

Carol


----- Original Message -----

From:


To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:32 PM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Doctor Bob's nightmare
hi everyone. I was reading Dr. Bob's nightmare in my 3rd edition and

it said As I write nearly six years have passed. This is in my 2nd

printing. I also have a 17th printing and it staes nearly four years

have passed as also does my fouth editions. Does anyone know where

this changed? It would be most appreciated.
SPONSORED LINKS Addiction recovery program Recovery from addiction Addiction

recovery center

Christian addiction recovery Alcoholics anonymous
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


a.. Visit your group "AAHistoryLovers" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

AAHistoryLovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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++++Message 3251. . . . . . . . . . . . Universal Mind

From: wbmscm . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/14/2006 8:30:00 AM


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I hope this question is not beyond the purpose of this list, but
Got any info. on Bill using the term "Universal Mind" in his

story.


The term caught my eye because it's capitalized. I searched the

archives and didn't come up with anything ( I may have missed it),

googled the term, with some success (seems origin may be from Hindu),

but any info. re: Bill using it would fulfill my curiousity.


Peace,

Wendy
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++++Message 3252. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Sauerkraut remedy

From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/14/2006 4:51:00 PM


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I recently revisited this as a result of picking up a pamphlet from Dr.

Bob's Home which had his last talk to the Cleveland A.A. Conference on July

30, 1950. It quotes him as saying "sauerkraut and cold meadow."

This talk

is in the June '73 Grapevine. The September '73 GV addresses "cold

meadow"


and concludes "And then one dear reader sent us a length of tape, much

better than ours, on which it all came out quite clearly, "sauerkraut

and

cold tomatoes." This was confirmed by a second reader in a letter from



England."
Tommy in Baton Rouge
At 16:26 1/31/2006 , Peggy Anna wrote:
>I have a book written in 1993 by Don Julio DeMedici Santaleone, entitled

>"The James Connection or Sauerkraut, Tomatoes, and Karo Syrup"

The author

>has been a member of AA for over 20 years now and lives in Rochester,

New

>York. In his introduction he states "as related in Dr. Bob and the



Good

>Oldtimers (p 74) a detoxification treatment of a combination of

tomatoes,

>sauerkraut and Karo corn syrup was administered by Bill W. to Dr. Bob in

>order to supply Bob with vitamins and energy so that Bob could perform

>surgery".

>

>Peggy Anna



>----- Original Message -----

>From: "Rich Foss"

>To:

>Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:13 PM

>Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Sauerkraut remedy

>

>



> >

> > An "old timer" in our fellowship is fond of using the

Sauerkraut Juice

> > treatment when he finds a wet one. It may have something to do

with

> > replacing electrolytes or something. He says it is mentioned in



our

> > literature. But we cannot find it. Perhaps AA Comes of Age or Dr.

Bob

> > and


> > the Old Timers? The force of his personality and his approach to

AA's


> > simple program of recovery have helped a great number of people

find a way

> > out. Just curious about the Sauerkraut.

> > Thanks.

> > Rich

> >


> >

> >


> >

> >


> >

> >


> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >


> >

> >


> >

> >


> >

>

>



>

>

>



>

>

>



>Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>



>

>

>



>
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++++Message 3253. . . . . . . . . . . . "Stump the Archivist"

From: J. Carey Thomas . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/15/2006 5:43:00 PM


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Our Area has started a idea called "Stump the Archivist." The

four questions below have come from attendees at our Area business

weekends.

I have tried the search capability of our site, but have not

mastered its capabilities. Probably the answers to these *questions* are

there, but I could use some help...!

Here is the first batch of four questions we have been asked:
JANUARY 2006 STUMP THE ARCHIVIST
Did Bill Wilson have a mistress who lived in Miami?
When and where did the poker chip tradition start for the groups?
Where did AA come to use the circle and triangle?
When was the grapevine first published? In its present form?
I would apppreciate any direction you might suggest,. . . or even

some answers!

_\|/_

(o o)


-----------o00-(_)-00o-----------carey----------

Carey Thomas

Archivist, Area 15
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++++Message 3254. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Crooked thinking

From: Charlene C. . . . . . . . . . . . . 3/15/2006 1:57:00 PM


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it would be my guess that employers are more inclined to think in

intellectual

terms than medical or spiritual. especially in that time, when alcoholism

was


considered more of a moral dilema than a spiritual mallody or terminal

illness.
just a thought.

C. Cook
trixiebellaa




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