would certainly be a better source.
I come up against the "God said it. I believe it. That settles
argument frequently. It is along the lines of, "My sponsor conducts Big
Book studies all over the country. He has brought the Big Book alive for
hundreds of people making their lives better. How can you say he is
wrong?" This is an argument from authority, and I can see its fallacies
but we deal with so much subjective and emotional reasoning, facts from
primary sources are often ridiculed and rejected. How does one deal with
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3154. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W''s writings on Vitamin B
From: JOHN e REID . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/11/2006 7:56:00 PM
I have, somewhere, a hard copy of Bill W's writings to the Medical
Vitamin B and its benefits to alcoholics. However, I am not sure as to where
this had copy is. However, I am sure that by now, these very informative and
interesting studies would be stored, electronically.Could someone please
me with an electronic copy.
Having "found" my first Sponsor (Broken Hill Jack who I knew all
my life and
walked with me for 29 years until he died July 1, 2001) virtually day dot,
having "done" my first 4 and 5th Step (from the Big Book) when I
was less than 3
months sober, having been involved in the 3rd Steps Meeting in Australia,
1st Big Book Study Groups (under direct and personal guidance from Wesley
Parrish), the first Beginners Group, 1st Sponsorship Workshop, 1 st
Workshops, 1 st Workshops on the Four Absolutes, etc., I am not suggesting
against anything to do with "structured Recovery process" (not
jargon). However, I came into AA before "Living Sober" was put
Based on my own practical experience, of getting well physically from a
shivering, shaking mess, sufficiently enough to have the bodily capacity and
I have an idea that many of the expressions and
conventions in AA these days have seeped in from
NA and/or treatment centers.
Does anyone know the origin of "Does anyone have
a burning desire?" at the end of a meeting?
Also where did the expression "do the next right
thing" come from?
And finally saying "It works if you work it" after
the Lord's prayer.
From the moderator:
Raymond I., who shows up in my book about
old time AA in northern Indiana
frequently tells newcomers "you must want it with
a burning desire." He says he didn't make up
this phrase, but that it was something that other
people also said back in the old days.
"Old time" is relative.
Raymond came into the program in 1974, but was
trained by the old-time black AA members who came
into South Bend AA in the 1940's. He doesn't talk
treatment jargon or use the jazzy NA phrases that
everybody chants at the end of their meetings.
So I think that in the form "you must want it with
a burning desire," the words go back to a period
before all the psychobabble and high school
cheerleading type stuff.
The great heyday of the treatment centers funded
by insurance money ran from the mid 1980's to
the mid 1990's approximately, so anything prior
to the mid 1980's is probably not coming from
But can anybody trace "you must want it with a
burning desire" back before the 1970's?
"Modern AA" and "old time AA" are both relative
terms, and in the earliest years, 1936 is very
different from 1938, 1939 is very different from
1941, and 1946 is very different from 1948 or
1949. The 1960's were very different from the
1950's. AA was going through continuous change
and development during that whole period. But
it was working effectively and continuing to
grow and expand at an enormous rate.
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
++++Message 3159. . . . . . . . . . . . Women in AA: "Gertrude" and Rev.
From: firstname.lastname@example.org . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/5/2006 7:16:00 AM
I've been a member of AAHistoryLovers for a long time and enjoy the list
Many years ago -- maybe 16 or so -- an audio tape was slipped into a
purchase of books I had made in a spiritual bookshop in NYC (long gone). It
out to be a wonderful talk by a woman named "Gertrude" to a group
Episcopal church women, in Chicago, I think. I don't remember specifics of
very well, but I'll never forget Gertrude. She was more than middle aged
when she made the tape and she had been sober a long time. She knew Dr.
Shoemaker and I think was a member of his congregation. Most vividly I
telling of the years she had lived in a house in Santa Fe which she had
filled up with needy women in early recovery.
I wish I had copied the tape, but I didn't. I passed it along to another
I wonder if anyone else ever heard that tape or remembers Gertrude.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
++++Message 3160. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s writings on Vitamin B
From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 7:45:00 AM
If no one else can find a hard copy, mine went with my other research
materials to the Kirk Collection at Brown University. I trust it could
be easily available: even though they have not yet sorted all my
materials, the printed one's are indexed as to location (I think). If
interested, contact David_Lewis@brown.edu or perhaps better,
++++Message 3161. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: 1948 and 1950 Statement of
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 8:37:00 AM
I guess that when a second printing is done of How It
Worked I'll have o include all of Royal Shepard's
letters and all of Henrietta Seiberling's letters
relating to both Bill and the Statement of 1948.
I prefer using actual documentation from the period in
question rather than sanitized and committee reviewed
official literature written and published years beyond
the actual events. Clarence was merely a part of the
Orthodox Group/Movement and not the founding member.
The documentation and not the apologists bear that
--- ArtSheehan wrote:
> Hi Shakey - this is a long reply
> The information you seek is qualified in the source
> book as "according
> to Clarence" or "Clarence believed." Clarence did
> much for which he
> should be complimented, but he also had another side
> that is not very
> complementary. I'd suggest that Clarence S was to