Notes from a think tank



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Feminist Conspiracy


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13.1
New Text 1648 (38 lines)
Date: 07-Oct-98 02:47
Subject: Status Women’s Ministry
------------------------------------------------------------
Running command “Status Women’s Ministry”
(Show) Status (on) (International) Women’s Ministry
Name: (International) Women’s Ministry
Number: Conference 4122
Type: Private, Files, Save Expired Texts
Netmail address: Women’s.Ministry@com.bbt.se
Created by: Mukhya (dd) HKS (NE-BBT)
Created on: 15-Jan-98
Organizer: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
No of texts: 96
No of members: 13 No of memberships: 0
Downloads: Yes Uploads: Yes
Text expiration time: Default
Maximum Size of Forwarded Files: 400 KBytes

(International) Women’s Ministry has the following members:

Unseen Last present * Name
0 07-Oct-98 Dhyanakunda (dd) KKD (NE-BBT, Almvik - S)
0 06-Oct-98 Hari (dd) HDG (Oxford Project)
0 07-Oct-98 Hariballabha (dd) HKS (Berlin - D)
0 07-Oct-98 Isani (dd) HKS (Abentheuer - D)
0 07-Oct-98 Kusha (dd) ACBSP (Philadelphia, PA - USA)
0 06-Oct-98 Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)
5 02-Oct-98 Mandakini (dd) BVS (Vienna - A)
0 07-Oct-98 Nandi Mukhi (dd) SDG
5 04-Oct-98 Prasanta (dd) LOK (New Delhi - IN)
0 07-Oct-98 Radha (dd) MG
0 07-Oct-98 Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
5 26-Sep-98 Tarunyamrta (dd) (IC) (B)
0 07-Oct-98 Vishaka (dd) ACBSP (Los Angeles, CA - USA)

(International) Women’s Ministry has the following Internet members:

Unseen Address and Name
0
0
0 Jaya Sri dasi
0

0


(Text 1648) ------------------------------------------------

13.2
New Text 2577 (36 lines)
Date: 26-Nov-98 17:49
Subject: Status Women’s Ministry
------------------------------------------------------------
Running command “Status Women’s Ministry”
(Show) Status (on) (International) Women’s Ministry
Name: (International) Women’s Ministry
Number: Conference 4122
Type: Private, Files, Save Expired Texts
Netmail address: Women’s.Ministry@com.bbt.se
Created by: Mukhya (dd) HKS (Asst. SysOp) (NE-BBT)
Created on: 15-Jan-98
Organizer: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
No of texts: 972
No of members: 11
Downloads: Yes Uploads: Yes
Text expiration time: Default
Maximum Size of Forwarded Files: 400 KBytes

(International) Women’s Ministry has the following members:

Unseen Last present * Name
3 26-Nov-98 Dhyanakunda (dd) KKD (NE-BBT, Almvik - S)
249 26-Nov-98 S Hari (dd) HDG (Oxford Project)
3 26-Nov-98 Hariballabha (dd) HKS (Berlin - D)
81 25-Nov-98 Isani (dd) HKS (Abentheuer - D)
0 26-Nov-98 Kusha (dd) ACBSP (Philadelphia, PA - USA)
0 26-Nov-98 Nandi Mukhi (dd) SDG
599 17-Nov-98 Prasanta (dd) LOK (New Delhi - IN)
0 26-Nov-98 Radha (dd) MG
0 26-Nov-98 Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
610 17-Nov-98 Tarunyamrta (dd) (IC) (B)
0 26-Nov-98 Vishaka (dd) ACBSP (Los Angeles, CA - USA)

(International) Women’s Ministry has the following Internet members:

Unseen Address and Name
0
0
0 Jaya Sri dasi
0

0


(Text 2577) ------------------------------------------------

13.3
This is from a log of December 11, 1998:
(Get) Day/Time - status women’s ministry
(Show) Status (on) (International) Women’s Ministry

You are not allowed to see status on (International) Women’s Ministry.

(Get) Day/Time - status sudharma
(Show) Status (on) Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)

Name: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)


Number: Person 2666
Type: Open
Netmail address: Sudharma.ACBSP@com.bbt.se
Last active: 11-Dec-98 21:50 -0400
Forwarding Mail to: Sudharma@aol.com (Individually, Alone, 150 KB)
Unseen letters: 0
Number of sessions: 12 Accumulated time in COM: 00:39:15
Default Text expiration: Default Incoming Text expiration: Default
Address1:
Address2:
Address3:
Country: Time zone: -0400
Phone:

Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA) is a member of the following conferences:

Unseen Type Name
0 Apocalypse 1999? (Are you ready?)
0 Applying Varnasrama (in Sri Mayapur Project)
0 GMC (GBC Ministerial Committee)
0 ICNA (ISKCON Communications North America)
0 ICSD (ISKCON Commission social/economic development)
0 IWC (Internat. Women’s Conference)
0 (ISKCON) Ministries
0 (Announcements of) New Conferences
0 Prabhupada Disciples
0 (ISKCON) Social and Economic Development
0 (COM) System (Info)
0 O Temple Support
0 WAC (Widows Ashrama Conference)
0 Widows’ Ashrama Project
0 X (All COM users)

13.4
This status was taken on September 28, 1998
Name: IWC (Internat. Women’s Conference)
Number: Conference 2850
Type: Private, Write protected, Only Members, Files, Save Expired Texts
Netmail address: IWC@com.bbt.se
Created by: Raktambara (das) HKS (SysOp) (NE-BBT)
Created on: 05-Feb-97
Organizers: Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA)
Hariballabha (dd) HKS (Berlin - D)
Moderator: Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA)
No of texts: 1329
No of members: 82 No of memberships: 0
Downloads: Yes Uploads: Yes
Text expiration time: Default
Maximum Size of Forwarded Files: 0 KBytes

IWC (Internat. Women’s Conference) has the following members:

Unseen Last present * Name
3 21-Sep-98 Acintya Rupa (dd) BJD (Melbourne - AU)
3 21-Sep-98 Aja Laxmi (dd) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
3 21-Sep-98 (Temple) Alachua (Florida, USA)
53 03-Sep-98 Anavadyangi (dd) ACBSP (Stagecoach, Nevada - USA)
3 21-Sep-98 Anjana (dd) ACBSP (IC UK - GB)

13.5
Text 1873529 from COM]
Lines: 480
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 98 15:48 -0500
From: “COM: Mukunda Goswami”
Reply-To: Mukunda.Goswami@com.bbt.se, GBC.Discussions@com.bbt.se
To: “COM: GBC Discussions”
Subject: Women in ISKCON
----------------------------

McLean, VA USA, 21 November 1998

Dear GBC members,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Some of ISKCON’s leaders and members have apparently been making
extreme statements about the women in our movement. For those of you who may have already seen some of these statements, please forgive the redundancy. It appears that some of these declarations have become part of the public record via internet. Postings and other information indicate that these are not just a handful of disgruntled individuals, rather there appears to be a cabal, a group of conspirators engaging in a pseudo-military-styled strategy that aims to ill-name, misrepresent, exploit and minimize a section of our society. This crosses the line of Vaisnava etiquette, to say the least. We are have information that certain parties have given these statements to the anti-cult movement. Therefore, as leaders of ISKCON, we should be prepared to take appropriate steps to publicly condemn such positioning and language, lest these be considered collectively to be (God forbid!) ISKCON’s “official” position.

Below are some samples of some of their remarks; please know that these only represent the thin wedge of what appears to be a much larger tyranny:

“I will not tolerate women raksasi mentality in ISKCON. You are obviously in
maya, and don’t know the scriptures. Lord Narasimha even incarnated once to kill demonic amazonian women trying to control the world, it is not that bad yet. My grandfather was a freedom fighter against Nazis in Denmark, and a priest. And I am a freedom fighter against nazi women in ISKCON. You are envious, it is very obvious. I guarantee you, you will never get married,
and if you are or do, you will be a troublemaker to your husband.”

“And in all those lifetime of Brahma’s births in a male body you’ll have to


marry a woman just like you. Imagine that! She will be unsubmissive shrew,
and all the other reasons your husband rejected you. Yet demanding that you support her, protect her and provide for her. Imagine that! Life after life
for millions of lives of Lord Brahma. Welcome to hell.”

“As far as etiquette and how mothers are to be treated, the sastra also shed


light on that issue.

1. When Bhumi was withholding her nourishment, Prthu was about to cut her to pieces--mother or not.

2. When Kaikeya banished Rama in order to satisfy her own lust for fame and adoration, Bharata was ready to decapitate her; his own natural mother. . . when we see mothers promoting adharma and insisting that it is their god-given right to do so. . . it would be the greatest folly to accept them and treat them as real mothers. . . As we can see, the etiquette normally reserved for real mothers cannot be used in this situation.”

“Now look what we have: some little immature, mouthy little wench of an upstart trying to correct and chastise a senior devotee, who is faithfully following and presenting Krsna consciousness in all it’s [sic] various social and philosophical dimensions and who most importantly supports all of his statements by sastra. What have we done? We’ve created little monsters!” (said about an initiated female devotee who disagreed with anti-woman


position)

“It’s amazing how many of these very same men who have abandoned their wives and children are the very same ones who now seek to liberate them from the shackles of Vedic morality. . . This is the psychology of the irresponsible men that cheat women and children by supporting and in fact propagating this puffed up concept of womanly life.”

“Some men know they will not be on the GBC, so they hope their wife will be
and thus they will have influence in this way.” (the above two statements were said about men who disagree with the anti-woman position)

“I also know of others who are shameless. Their lives are riddled with the


grossest type of deviations. Their lives are an embarrassment to Krsna consciousness. Yet they arrogantly insist on becoming leaders as if they can
show the chaste and faithful women and responsible men how to become Krsna conscious. These type of females are ISKCON’s major liability. Divorce, remarriage, prostitution, pimping and drug use. There is no doubt that such
is extraordinary behaviour for vaisnavis. But then again they are so transcendental that they no longer need to follow common moral rules and regulations. Right?”

“Women managers will cause further falldowns. Indira Gandhi was a living


example of this, and things repeat themselves, so women managers, GBC’s and TP’s will be equal to more falldowns.” (the above two comments were said of women in leadership positions)

Some members of this group have referred to the ISKCON Women’s Ministry (IWM) as “the International Whore Ministry”; the IWC has been dubbed “the


International Witches conference”; women who are taking up leadership positions are known as “feminazis”, “monsters” with “no souls”, “demons”, and “destroyers of religious principles.”

The following exchange took place in regards to the women’s ministry:


“Don’t the GBC members have anything but bull-dung for brains?”
“You’re being too kind”
“Many of the GBC have become completely bewildered by their charms and have become dancing dogs.”

By way of contrast, the following article, which was started several weeks ago and was put on the COM BTG staff conference on Tuesday, 17 November 1998, is scholarly and civilized. Although it is not customary for the entire GBC to review a BTG article before publication, I thought this could be an exception. In fact it was Visakha prabhu, the author, who originally requested just such a review. BTG’s editor-and-chief, Nagaraja dasa agrees and welcomes your comments. We request, however, that every GBC member give a “yea” or “nay” to BTG publishing this article in the usual “generally in favor” or “generally opposed” style of straw voting. We need your response by 29 November, 1998.

Remember, there is room for many letters to the editor and the opportunity for a “response” article, subject to the usual editorial review, even though the “other side” has already (maybe inadvertently) made its point. Comments AND your straw vote should be directed to Nagaraja@mindspring.com

Many thanks.

your servant,
Mukunda Goswami

13.6
From: “COM: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua)
To: 100526.1600@COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: Re: Internet Message Header
Date: Thu, Jan 15, 1998, 3:00 PM

[Text 1034134 from COM]

Dear Guruattma and Devaki,

My humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.


Thank you for your text and thought. I believe their was another text, or perhaps it was from you that expressed this concept of a man representing the Women’s Ministry.

I would like to take more time to answer this, but given the circumstances,


let me at least begin with a few points.

First, men are a part of the Ministry....Bhaktitirtha Maharaja, Bir Krishna Maharaja, and Anuttama have been extremely active since it’s inception. But also Hrydayanada Maharaja, Mukunda Maharaja, Lokanatha Maharaja and many others have been taken on many roles of support. It is a team effort and the men are very active.



Your humble servant,


Sudharma dasi

13.7
Text COM:1866684 (23 lines)
From: Antardwip (das) JPS (GB)
Date: 20-Nov-98 09:55
To: Astrology [457]
To: GCD (Grhastha Culture Dialogue) [599]
To: Mataji Council (Germany) [459]
To: (ISKCON) Social and Economic Development [804]
To: Varnasrama development [6659]
To: (International) Women’s Ministry [488]
To: Sridhari (dd) JPS (Mendoza - ARG) [821] (forwarded: 20-Nov-98
For: Granddisciples (of Srila Prabhupada)
For: Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by Shyamasundara Das)
Reference: Text COM:1865469 by Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley -
Comment: Text COM:1874478 by Ananta Purusottama (das) TSI (GB)
Subject: RE: MAJOR CONSPIRACY EXPOSED Part 1
------------------------------------------------------------

> >If they are doing all this, leave them with, it’s their problem because they


> >will never reach the spiritual world, but if it is not true, you’re making
> >an big apparadha, and this is very dangerous for your life.

> Putting our head in the sand will only play into the bigoted agenda of the


> GHQ members.

What does GHQ stand for, and what is it’s bigoted agenda its members all


subscribe to? I am surprised that a particular Maharaja’s name has been
connected to GHQ forum, as I know him very well and in his writings on Indian Village culture he clearly values highly the family (grihastha) ashrama.

Hang Shymasundara prabhu high by all means, but everyone one that forum? Surely we need to see the texts individuals have written first.

I feel that individuals should be held accountable for their own writings on
any forum, not everyone on that forum. But if it has a specific agenda all
agree to which is bigoted, that is different. So what is that agenda, and how
did everyone agree to it?

I know you say zero tolerance, but zero tolerate Shymasundara and anyone else who made adequately disparaging remarks, not everyone. Otherwise the women may start a witch-hunt! (Only for men-witches this time!)


(Text COM:1866684) ----------------------------------------------

Section 14


Miscellaneous texts


___________________________________

Women can preach but within the guidelines of Nari-dharma

>Date: Sat, 13 Jun 98 13:26 +0500


>From: "COM: Bhakti Vikasa Swami"
>Sender: Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami@com.bbt.se
>To: "Jivan Mukta Dasa"
>Cc: ameyatma@iname.com
>Subject: JPS
>Lines: 101
>X-Com-Textno: COM1421052
>X-Com-Flags: LETTER
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>[Text 1421052 from COM]
>
>Dear Jivan Mukta Prabhu,
>
>Please accept my greetings. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>
>I don't necessarily disagree with Jayapataka Maharaja's statement. As far
>as I can understand, the traditional dharma of women and the yuga dharma of
>sankirtana need not conflict. It was Srila Prabhupada's brilliance in
>reconciling traditional Indian culture within the Western culture to bring
>us to the highest culture of the soul, that enabled him to spread Krsna
>consciousness all over the world.
>
>Considering that women nowadays do not follow the injunction not to cross
>the threshold of their father's of husband's home, and that someone has to
>preach to them...
>
>My female disciples know very well that I am not a 'feminist', in the modern
>sense of the term. But I also encourage them to preach. One married lady
>who is my disciple is having good success in preaching among girl university
>students. She doesn't go with her husband, but with other initiated,
>married women. In fact, it would be difficult even for her husband to enter
>the girl's hostel.
>
>At this stage of our movement, where we are a long way from varnasrama
>principles being the norm, I think it is acceptable to engage women as
>preachers. Of course the boundaries of that should be understood. Srila
>Prabhupada was very pleased with his women disciples who distributed books.
>He also encouraged them to follow nari dharma, so there need not be a
>dichotomy.
>
>Last year I visited devotees in North Carolina, most of whom are Prabhupada
>disicples, and who married late, due to full engagement in the sankirtana
>movement in their youth. Although marrying late is unusual and is not
>generally to be encouraged, I found there a fine group of devotees, very
>much committed to stability in marriage and following Srila Prabhupada's
>instructions about traditional family life.
>
>Even in our own Gaudiya tradition, as you are well aware, there were women
>preachers. I asked a venerable godbrother of Srila Prabhupada about this.
>His understanding was that they preached mainly within the group of those
>who were already devotees, not to outsiders.
>
>Jayapataka Maharaja is very much conscious of traditional Indian culture,
>having lived in it for many years. He is a also a major leader in our
>movement in widespread propagation of Krsna consciousness. Another trait of
>his is cultural sensitivity. He makes a point to adjust his manner of
>dealings and presentation of Krsna consciousness according to the local
>culture, wherever he may be. Not that I haven't had my differences with him
>over the years, but that's another matter.
>
>I wish this issue of women giving class, leading kirtanas, etc, had come
>about in a more considered manner. Probably in the euphoria of women's
>liberation, not being aware of the deep-seated local opposition to it, a GBC
>member asked a woman to lead mangala arati in Mayapur. Thus from the
>beginning it became a confrontation. Of course, the women's libbers tend
>to be very confrontational, so it is difficult in any circumstances to
>discuss these things in a reasonable manner.
>
>If these points could be discussed in a nonattached way, I would be all for
>promoting our mothers as preachers, within certain boundaries suitable to
>nari dharma. I'm sure this issues can be discussed with Jayapataka Maharaja
>in a reasonable manner.
>
>It is interesting that the leading protagonists of both parties--namely
>Dayarama and Madhusudani--are both his disciples.
>
>I'll just recall an incident that took place when I was preaching in Dubai a
>few weeks ago. I arrived at an apartment where I was to speak to a group of
>devotees, all from high class Indian backgrounds. A mataji was leading the
>kirtana (all the devotees were sitting down), but when I entered the room,
>the kirtana broke as everyone offered obeisances, and then someone else took
>up leading the kirtana. The devotees present were all married or heading
>that way. In Dubai they are all working people. There is no brahmacari
>asrama.
>
>I think you should express your concerns to Jayapataka Maharaja privately.
>If you do so publicly, it becomes more like a challenge. Part of your
>service in bringing up a well cultured family is to train them to be
>respectful to the point of worship of sannyasis. That is difficult for many
>devotees due to past disappointments, but it is our culture that our
>children need to be brought up in, for their benefit. That could bring up
>another whole discussion about proper behavior of sannyasis, but here I am
>just making a general point.
>
>Regarding the statement by Mukunda Maharaja: I don't think you should ask
>him to explain himself to your members, because that would probably make him
>upset, and not fulfill your purpose. However, if it was worded very
>politely, you might get a reasoned response, that could lead to a fruitful
>discussion. I would suggest something like this:
>
>Dear Maharaja,
>Regarding this statement, several members of this conference have expressed
>their concern for the following reasons...
>
>Maybe you could ask Vidvan Gauranga to help you with the wording, because he
>is a very sweet and respectful person.
>
>Dasanudasa,
>
>Bhakti Vikasa Swami
>
>P.S. If you want you can paste selections from this on DOW.

From: Shyamasundara ACBSP


Date: 02-Oct-98 07:43
To: GHQ
Subject: Re-circulating texts
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maharaja’s and Prabhus

PAMHO AGTSP

While waiting for GHQ to be formed several texts were circulated between
various members via “CC” but not everybody got all of them and some of the
new members saw none of them. Therefore I am going to post what I think are the most relavant ones to GHQ again. It will also help us to regain some of the lost momentum that occured during the long wait.

shyama
(Text COM:1738348) -----------------------------------------

Text COM:1741940 (32 lines)
From: Shyamasundara ACBSP
Date: 17-Sep-98 18:22
To: GHQ
Subject: DIS Absurdities in Feminist Doctrine
------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I would like to compile a short paper with a tentative title “The Absurdity
of Feminism.” This would require knowing the main points of the feminist
position and then showing how they are absurd. For example:

1) Women should be given equal rights with men because men and women are equal. Women should be protected. This is absurd because if women are equal with men why should one person who was equal to another required to be protected by the other party. One only requires protection if they are in a subordinate position. That is, a subordinate is protected by a superior.


Therefore women are not equal to men.

2) Women are equal to men but because of social pressure over the ages the


men have suppressed and oppressed to women into an inferior position. If
women are equal to men how is it that one equal party was able to suppress
and oppress another equal party? This is absurd. Oppression can only take
place if a superior force overcomes an inferior force. Therefore women are
not equal to men. If they had been they would not be suppressed or oppressed.

Anyway, these are two examples of common feminist doctrine which are at


their heart totally absurd. If somebody has coallated or compiled in a concise form the essence of feminist doctrine, could you please send it to me. Also if you have your own examples of absurdities in feminist doctrine please forward it to me.

Your humble servant


Shyamasundara Dasa
(Text COM:1741940) -----------------------------------------
> Letter COM:1723985 (7 lines)
> From: Prithu (das) ACBSP
> Date: 27-Sep-98 11:56
> To: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [6241]
> Reference: Text COM:1713290 by Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)
> Subject: What do you think, Prithu Prabhu? Are you willing to get
> involved?
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > A private conference is being organized to formulate a proposal/
> > resolution to GBC. It would be kind of you to participate in that.
>
> Please let me know when this is going to happen.
> I’ll be glad to be on board.
>
> yspda
(Text COM:1723985) -----------------------------------------

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