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Reviews of cookbooks with medieval recipes posted after December 2006.
NOTE: See also the files: cookbooks-msg, cookbooks2-msg, cookbooks5-msg, cooking-bib, cookbooks-bib, cookbooks2-bib, cookbooks-SCA-msg, cb-rv-Apicius-msg, cb-novices-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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[See the other cookbooksX-msg files, where X = a number for the messages posted before and after those in this file.]
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:23:01 -0600

From: "Terry Decker"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Burger battle

To: "Cooks within the SCA"


> Who is "Benavides-Barajas"? I don't think I remember his works being

> discussed here before.

>

> Stefan
I think this is probably Luis Benavides-Barajas. The name popped up on the



list five or six years ago in a bibliography from a book on Spanish culinary

traditions (IIRC). According to my notes, he's a noted culinary author in

Spanish with at least 15 books to his credit. Again IIRC, I've read one

small modern piece by him translated into English and found the prose a

little florid.
Since I haven't read his work, I can't begin to address it's accuracy. A

quick search on his name in relation to the Florilegium shows that Huette

raised a question about the historical accuracy of his recipe for alfajores.
Bear

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:17:28 -0300

From: Suey

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Burger Battle

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Phil Troy wrote:

> I'm left wondering whether Benavides-Barajas actually

> used the word "hamburger" . . . or "albondiga" (meatball)
He calls it "Supremo de carne o hamburgesa andalusi" not

'albondiga'. He does distinguish the two terms clearly in his books.


Stefan li Rous wrote:

Who is "Benavides-Barajas"? I don't think I remember his works

being discussed here before.
L. Benavides-Barajas is a Spanish specialist in historical gastronomy.

He has contributed to several European magazines, gastronomy guide books

and cookery books such as the second edition of "Dinner Party Book" and

"Let's Lunch in London" by Corrine Streich. Also he has written for La

Cronica de Granada, The Reporter and the Daily Telegraph. In Spain he is

known for his publications such as "Nueva-Clasica Andalusi", "La

Alhambra," "Los moz?rabes y muladies," "Al-Andalus, la cocina y su

historia" and other historical cookery books on various areas in

Al-Andalus. He provides historical information and recipes some of

which are obviously modernized versions of Huici's Spanish translation

of the 13th C Hispano-Arabic manuscript. His work is interesting and

informative but as indicated he looses credibility for his failure to

cite his sources.
Susan

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:27:47 -0500

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Doing my best

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
I just received my copy of Daz B?ch von G?ter

Spise, the translation by Melitta Adamson.


The book has a huge rant against the SCA

translation by Alia Atlas. Among other things it

says this "translation spread more false

information on the oldest German cookbook than

any other edition or translation to date".


Adamson's translation is noticeably better.

After all, that is why I paid $24 for a tiny

little paperback.
But except for a few recipes, it only reads

smoother. Atlas's translation has mistakes, but

the recipes for the most part are useful to a

cook, even if they don't make it as literature.


I started researching German food because of

Atlas' translation was available online. Is it

better to have somewhat faulty information, or no

information at all? Cariadoc said "The best

should not become the enemy of the good".
This struck home because I am attempting to do my

own translation of Rumpolt's Ein New Kochbuch. In

spite of care, it is no doubt peppered with

mistakes.


If a "best" translation of Rumpolt was available,

I'd love to be using it. I hope someone

publishes a better translation than my beginner's

attempt
If I share my translations, and make something

available, that was not readily available before,

does that mean I am "spreading false information"?


Is it wrong to do the best job you can, on something that no one else

has done?



Ranvaig

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 23:28:47 -0500

From: Daniel Myers

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Doing my best

To: Cooks within the SCA
On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:27 PM, ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:
> I just received my copy of Daz B?ch von G?ter

> Spise, the translation by Melitta Adamson.

>

>



> The book has a huge rant against the SCA

> translation by Alia Atlas.


Just because it was translated by a member of the SCA does not make

it an SCA translation. There are some in academia though who will

tar all SCAdians with the same brush.
> But except for a few recipes, it only reads

> smoother. Atlas's translation has mistakes, but

> the recipes for the most part are useful to a

> cook, even if they don't make it as literature.


Then the cooks who can't afford Adamson's version will use the free

one, and the historians who want the best translation they can get

still have something to buy - as will the libraries. Everybody wins.
Adamson's biggest reason to complain though is probably rooted in the

mistaken belief that if there's a free version of a text on the web,

then a bound hardcopy has less value.
> If I share my translations, and make something

> available, that was not readily available before,

> does that mean I am "spreading false information"?
No. Your translation may not be perfect, but odds are it's better

than nothing. You can only "spread misinformation" if you

intentionally pass on translations that you know are wrong (as

opposed to essentially correct but inelegant).


> Is it wrong to do the best job you can, on something that no one

> else has done?


Not in my opinion. If you're willing to make your translation freely

accessible and to correct errors when/if they're pointed out to you,

then you're making a valuable contribution to the field. Keep at it!
- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers)

Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:47:05 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Doing my best

To: Cooks within the SCA
On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:27 PM, ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:
> I started researching German food because of

> Atlas' translation was available online. Is it

> better to have somewhat faulty information, or no

> information at all? Cariadoc said "The best

> should not become the enemy of the good".

>

> This struck home because I am attempting to do my



> own translation of Rumpolt's Ein New Kochbuch. In

> spite of care, it is no doubt peppered with

> mistakes.

>

> If a "best" translation of Rumpolt was available,



> I'd love to be using it. I hope someone

> publishes a better translation than my beginner's

> attempt

>

> If I share my translations, and make something



> available, that was not readily available before,

> does that mean I am "spreading false information"?


Well, that depends. Anybody can make a mistake. What matters is

whether you respond to a well-intended correction in a manner that

indicates you're interested in a good piece of work over bolstering

your own ego. I've had experiences with SCAdians who've done

translations based on guesswork and a dictionary for a language they

don't really speak or understand fluently, when a correction was

offered in good faith by someone who speaks the language fluently

_and_ has access to dictionaries. The difference is that foundation

which serves as a "hook" on which to hang the dictionary work.
Alia Atlas (who was once active in the East Kingdom), from my own

experience, never actively resisted corrections, but her work got so

widely distributed, and so quickly, that it became difficult to hunt

down various incarnations and make sure corrections were applied. I

have a friend who was in the room when Caterina read Adamson's

comments, and she was utterly devastated, another casualty of a

brilliant academic whose skillset apparently doesn't include enough

tact to encourage someone for the greater good and for the sake of

the spread of enlightenment every academic is supposedly dedicated to.
Most everything Adamson said was true. Her remarks also read to me as

childish, arrogant, and designed to discourage "amateur" scholarship

from people without proper academic credentials. There's some

question whether Adamson would ever have gotten off her butt and done

her own edition of Ein Buoch von Guter Spise had Atlas not produced

her flawed version.


> Is it wrong to do the best job you can, on something that no one

> else has done?


No, not at all. See above. Being afraid to speak, or to have an

opinion, because someone else may have an opinion better informed

than, or in disagreement with, yours, is when learning comes to a

crashing halt.


Hey, I make idiotic statements all the time. I enjoy it. It's like

serving the ball in a tennis match. Come back to me with something

better. If you can, we all win. If not, same difference. It's when

people can't or won't speak because they're afraid of being thought

stupid, is when we all get a little stupid.
Adamantius

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:51:53 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Deipnosophists

To: Cooks within the SCA
It turns out that Harvard University Press has a new edition of this

out. So far there's 2 volumes


http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/L208N.html

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/L204N.html


The Learned Banqueters, I, Books 1-3.106e

The Learned Banqueters, II, Books 3.106e-5.


Athenaeus Edited and translated by S. Douglas Olson
In /The Learned Banqueters/, Athenaeus describes a series of dinner

parties at which the guests quote extensively from Greek literature. The

work (which dates to the very end of the second century A.D.) is amusing

reading and of extraordinary value as a treasury of quotations from

works now lost. Athenaeus also preserves a wide range of information

about different cuisines and foodstuffs; the music and entertainments

that ornamented banquets; and the intellectual talk that was the heart

of Greek conviviality. S. Douglas Olson has undertaken to produce a

complete new edition of the work, replacing the previous seven-volume

Loeb Athenaeus (published under the title /Deipnosophists/)

The next volume is due out in January 2008.
Johnnae

Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 18:29:31 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spanish books was Book Search

To: Cooks within the SCA
Gretchen Allen Johns wrote:

> Is anyone aware of an English translation or a webbed version of

> either of the following books:

> Vergel de sanidad: que por otro nombre se llamava Banquete de

> cavalleros y orden de Bivir.. By Lobera de Avila
The 1542 is on microform.
By the same author *variant title: Banquete de nobles caballeros

(1530)*
Luis *Lobera de Avila * is available in a 1952 reprint. Oh and

there's a
1996 *1. ed. **Spanish* Book 227 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.

San Sebasti?n : R & B Ediciones, ; ISBN: 8488947593 9788488947598


Collecci?n de textos gastron?micos ;; 11; *Variation:* Colecc?on Textos

gastron?micos ;; 12.


There's also a 1923 reprint volume titled *Libro del r?gimen de la salud :*

*y de la esterilidad de los hombres y mujeres, y de las enfermedades de

los ni?os, y otras cosas util?simas /*
Luis *Lobera de Avila*; Baltasar *Hern?ndez Briz*
His works appear in Spanish, German, Dutch, Italian, French, Latin,

Portuguese, but not in English.


> Dialogos de philsophia natural y moral By Enrique Jorge Enriquez
That title appears to be wrong. *Keyword Dialogos AND Keyword philsophia

*did not find any records in this database.Enrique Enriquez appears in

RLIN to be the author of only one book. It is on microfilm and it's in

Spanish.
Johnna

Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 20:28:42 -0400

From: Robin Carroll-Mann

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Book Search

To: Cooks within the SCA


Gretchen Allen Johns wrote:

> Is anyone aware of an English translation or a webbed version of

> either of the following books:

> Vergel de sanidad: que por otro nombre se llamava Banquete de

> cavalleros y orden de Bivir.. By Lobera de Avila
I'm not aware of any translations, but there's a webbed facsimile at:

http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?

ref=X532742701&idioma=0
> Dialogos de philsophia natural y moral By Enrique Jorge Enriquez
I'm not familiar with this one. Are you sure about the author? There's

a 1558 book by this title, but the author is Pedro Mercado. It's webbed at:

http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533763915&idioma=0

--


Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:09:48 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens

Subject: [Sca-cooks] New book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due out

hopefully soon!

To: Cooks within the SCA
When I was on the Library of Congress, looking for something else of

course, I stumbled on

to this entry:
Zaouali, Lilia, 1960-

Medieval cuisine of the Islamic world : a concise history with 174

recipes / Lilia Zaouali ;

translated by M.B. DeBevoise ; foreword by Charles Perry.

Berkeley : University of California Press, 2007.

Projected Publication Date: 0709

p. cm.

ISBN: 9780520247833 (cloth : alk. paper)



Notes: "Translated from both the original French version and the

published Italian edition of the

book"--Pref. to the American edition. Includes bibliographical

references and index.

Subjects:

Cookery, Arab.

Arabs--Food--History.

Cookery, Medieval.

Cookery, Islamic.
This sounds like a good book. I just hope that it will be published

before 2009.


Huette

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:21:30 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due

out hopefully soon!

To: Cooks within the SCA


I just checked the website for the U. of Calif. Press and found out that it is being published in October of this year! For the exorbitant sum of

$24.95! And they are taking pre-orders! Yippy!!!!


Huette

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 08:47:39 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Cuisine of Islamic World was New

book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due out hopefully soon!

To: Cooks within the SCA


Here's the description that I came across the other day.
Huette is right as it does look like it will be an interesting title for

the fall.


Johnnae (who promises a forthcoming booklist one of these days)
Medieval Cuisine of the Islamic World: A Concise History with 174

Recipes *by Lilia Zaouali **Publication Date:* October, 2007 *University

of California Press ****ISBN:* 0-520-24783-3 *ISBN13:*

978-0-520-24783-3 ** Trade Cloth *Pages:* 242 *Price:* $24.95 (USD)

Retail (Publisher)
Vinegar and sugar, dried fruit, rose water, spices from India and China,

sweet wine made from raisins and dates--these are the flavors of the

golden age of Arab cuisine. This book, a delightful culinary adventure

that is part history and part cookery, surveys the gastronomical art

that developed at the Caliph's sumptuous palaces in ninth- and

tenth-century Baghdad, drew inspiration from Persian, Greco-Roman, and

Turkish cooking, and rapidly spread across the Mediterranean. In a

charming narrative, Lilia Zaouali introduces the great medieval cooks

and cookbooks, discusses the origins of dietary obsessions and

prohibitions, tells of Arab merchants who traveled to China to obtain

sugar, coconuts, and spices four centuries before Marco Polo, considers

the food of Ramadan, and much more as she brings to life Islam's vibrant

culinary heritage. The second half of the book gathers an extensive

selection of original recipes drawn from medieval culinary sources along

with thirty contemporary recipes that evoke the flavors of the Middle

Ages. Featuring dishes such as Chicken with Walnuts and Pomegranate,

Beef with Pistachios, Couscous with Walnuts, Lamb Stew with Fresh

Apricots, Tuna and Eggplant Pureacute;e with Vinegar and Caraway, and

Stuffed Dates, the book also discusses topics such as cookware,

utensils, aromatic substances, and condiments, making it both an

entertaining read and an informative resource for anyone who enjoys the

fine art of cooking.


<<< I just checked the website for the U. of Calif. Press and found out that

it is being published in October of this year! For the exorbitant sum of $24.95! And they are taking pre-orders! Yippy!!!!


Huette >>>

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 19:38:25 -0700

From: Lilinah

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due

out hopefully soon!

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


> Zaouali, Lilia, 1960-

> Medieval cuisine of the Islamic world : a concise history with 174

> recipes / Lilia Zaouali ;

> translated by M.B. DeBevoise ; foreword by Charles Perry.

> Berkeley : University of California Press, 2007.

> Projected Publication Date: 0709

> ISBN: 9780520247833 (cloth : alk. paper)

> Notes: "Translated from both the original French version and the

> published Italian edition of

> the book"


Charles Perry was not thrilled about this book. He said it rather

jumps from al-Baghdadi to the 20th century without covering much in

between. And the author didn't seem to understand that the history of

what was in between was also significant.


I always welcome new books, but I would rather see it first before i

buy it, based on his reservations.

--

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)



the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:50:09 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meals and Recipes from Ancient Greece

To: Cooks within the SCA
I bought it in the spring at Borders (had Borders credit that had to be used).

You might check and see if a larger bookstore in your area has a copy

that you can see. Or interlibrary loan it in before buying it.

It's a work with ancient Greek recipes. Not all original recipes

are given. Only 56 recipes total.

Very short bibliography for the first section. My thought is that

copies of Dalby's works might be more useful for the money.
Johnnae
Sandra Kisner wrote:

> Is anybody familiar with this book?

>

> Sandra


>

> Salza Prina Ricotti (ed.), Eugenia, Meals and Recipes from Ancient

> Greece. Translated by Ruth Anne Lotero. Los Angeles: Getty

> Publications, 2007. Pp. 122. ISBN 978-0-89236-876-1. $24.95.

Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:55:37 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help finding out-of-print sources

To: Cooks within the SCA ,

Sandragood at aol.com
Before there was EEBO, there was microfilm and a number of

university and college libraries have the Epulario on microfilm.

Repeat---

Even if they don't have EEBO, they have the book on microfilm.

It's part of what was UMI Early English Books I.

It's based on titles found in Pollard & Redgrave, Short Title

Catalogue I.

The microfilm series began in 1938.


You are looking for:
Epulario, or The Italian banquet [microform] : wherein is shewed the

maner how to dresse and prepare all kind of flesh, foules or fishes. As

also how to make sauces, tartes, pies, &c. After the maner of all

countries. With an addition of many other profitable and necessary

things. Translated out of Italian into English. 1598.

Microfilm. Ann Arbor, Mich. : UMI, 1953. 1 microfilm reel ; 35

mm. (Early English books, 1475-1640; 539:8). s1953

That means it was filmed and released in 1953 and is on reel 539, item

number 8.
Most university and college libraries allow members of the general

public


to use the microfilm collections in the library. Many that won't allow

access

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